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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #231
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    To your second point, yes, it is. In this way, however? Not at all. This issue is being blown to national scale.
    when it is blown to a national scale inevitably it is done so by the union opposition. Everybody has heard about Chris Christie taking on the unions; the union's response to him made him a national figure. where the matter simply goes up for debate, everyone has their say, arguments are flung around, and then a deal get's hammered out, nobody hears about it.

    Even if the poll you showed earlier was representative of actual changing ideals rather than the meaning of the words, this is not in any way what the average american would want.
    i would of course disagree what if you were to simply send out a poll asking if it would be okay to increase teacher compensation in line with inflation, with the voters being asked their permission before they are put on the hook for above and beyond that? if you were to simply ask Americans if workers should be forced to join unions and pay dues in order to teach? that's the substance of what this "collective bargaining rights limitation" is about.

    Most people remain in the moderate portion of the scale and won't like the extremist behavior currently being shown.
    Wisconsin just became like 26 other states that limit collective bargaining. Wisconsins' employees retain broader ability to collectively bargain than federal employees. that's hardly extremist.
    Last edited by cpwill; 03-10-11 at 04:44 AM.

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    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I wonder what the response from some is going to be for your post?.....

    "That's because you are a damn Leebrul that hates America."

    LOL.
    Well now. I'm no Liberal by any stretch. I usually vote conservative at the polls. That said, this GOP platform greatly reminds me of the Soviet Union with its Central Planning Commission and phony pseudo-unions orchestrated by the state.

    My family fled the USSR. I just can't in good conscience support an American political party that attempts to Sovietize the collective bargaining process.

    אשכנזי היהודי • Белый Россию

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    .....what???

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Well now. I'm no Liberal by any stretch. I usually vote conservative at the polls. That said, this GOP platform greatly reminds me of the Soviet Union with its Central Planning Commission and phony pseudo-unions orchestrated by the state.

    My family fled the USSR. I just can't in good conscience support an American political party that attempts to Sovietize the collective bargaining process.
    Opposing collective bargaining is extremely pro-capitalism. As far as I'm concerned, capitalism is about competition, not about a total lack of government intervention. Anyone who attempts to monopolize an industry - whether it's steel, web browsers, or labor - deserves to have the government break them apart. Unions are no different than any other kind of trust or monopoly, and should be treated as such. Public unions are the worst of all because they steal from the public, rather than just the consumers.

    As Adam Smith himself noted, "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." Unions most certainly do exactly that.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Let's make a wager Hay.....Walker is recalled I leave the website...he isn't...you do?
    Would ritualistic seppuku be more dramatic?
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the ability of a private group such as a union to overturn representative democracy at will is not a right.
    When have they "overturn representative democracy at will"?

    The rights to assemble and petition is one of the fundamental right of democracy and this governor says, no you can't assemble as a group and bargain with us on anything other than wages.

    This on the heel of a supreme court that grants "personhoood" to corporations because it is made up of individuals (and unions aren't made up of individuals?). The balance is going further and further in the favours of the likes of the Koch Brothers who have a lot of money to advance their interests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    When have they "overturn representative democracy at will"?

    The rights to assemble and petition is one of the fundamental right of democracy and this governor says, no you can't assemble as a group and bargain with us on anything other than wages.

    This on the heel of a supreme court that grants "personhoood" to corporations because it is made up of individuals (and unions aren't made up of individuals?). The balance is going further and further in the favours of the likes of the Koch Brothers who have a lot of money to advance their interests.
    You are wise to connect the dots. This entire Wisconsin event is only a small part of a right wing effort to repeal much of the progressive reforms of the 20th century. They want to take us back to the Gilded Age before the days of Teddy Roosevelt and Lafollette and later the New Deal and Great Society.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    It seems like a lot of people here are confused as to what collective bargaining is.

    A big part of it is the ability to keep employers to stick to agreements made with employees.

    It's not a process that forces employers to do whatever employees want of them, simply assures that employees are able to negotiate with their bosses, and that any agreements made stay in practice.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    The rights to assemble and petition is one of the fundamental right of democracy and this governor says, no you can't assemble as a group and bargain with us on anything other than wages.
    They can assemble and petition all they like, but that doesn't give them the right to collude to fix prices any moreso than any other trust. A union is not merely a lobbying group for higher wages; they actually expect a seat at the negotiating table, they employ strongarm tactics to get it, and workers have no choice but to give them money. If workers want to join a special interest group, of their own volition, that seeks to increase public wages at the expense of taxpayers by electing certain candidates to political office, they are free to do so. But let's not pretend that's what a union is.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-10-11 at 08:17 AM.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    They can assemble and petition all they like, but that doesn't give them the right to collude to fix prices any moreso than any other trust. A union is not merely a lobbying group for higher wages; they actually expect a seat at the negotiating table, they employ strongarm tactics to get it, and workers have no choice but to give them money. If workers want to join a special interest group, of their own volition, that seeks to increase public wages at the expense of taxpayers, they are free to do so. But let's not pretend that's what a union is.
    Again, I'm pretty sure you don' know what a union is.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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