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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    But what if this "performance" causes benefits for the company, but puts the entire global economy on the brink of destruction and then when the public bails them out, they do nothing to change the root problems that caused the crisis, thus almost ensuring that another one will occur in the future?
    Such are the drawbacks of freedom for with freedom comes responsibility. I did not support the bailout of the banks proposed and signed by Bush. Economists claim that is what saved the economy but I am not so sure. Free enterprise and capitalism is what made this country the greatest on the face of the earth because it rewards risk taking and incentive. Unfortunately there are always going to be greedy people in the world and those become the poster individuals for those that want to destroy the economic system we have. Overall however the good still outweighs the bad and anyone that violates their responsibility should be prosecuted and that includes those "evil" corporations. Our economy is too diverse and too dependent on the private sector to be destroyed by a few bad apples.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    When are you going to stop acting like a troll and actually add real content to the conversation, Whovian? This thread is not about anyone here at DP, you'll find those threads in the basement.
    if you dont ****ing like what I post, feel free to complain to a moderator or feel free to not ****ing read it.
    Last edited by Whovian; 03-21-11 at 12:00 PM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Dittohead not!;1059361981]I'm not sure how it works in Wisconsin. In California, the employee pays for the pension fund.
    Not in Wisconsin



    yes, just what I said before. According to your line of reasonikng, the public employee wouldn't have any money without his job, so any money that gets spent is tax money. Therefore, tax money is being spent to provide everything from beer to beerocks. And, as has been pointed out, that reasoning is spurious, and (almost) anyone can see that it is
    It goes well beyond that and obviously you didn't read the entire article. Private sector businesses that are unionized go out of business and employees lose their jobs when companies are ineffecient or competition forces them to remain competitive but not so with public unions where the taxpayer simply funds any increases. People have a choice in the private sector but not the public sector. What you and others cannot see because of being blinded by an ideology is the harm public unions do to the state and thus the taxpayers. Name for me one public union that went out of business because of a state failure and then you will have a point. States cannot go bankrupt, businesses can and unions destroy business.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Such are the drawbacks of freedom for with freedom comes responsibility. I did not support the bailout of the banks proposed and signed by Bush. Economists claim that is what saved the economy but I am not so sure. Free enterprise and capitalism is what made this country the greatest on the face of the earth because it rewards risk taking and incentive. Unfortunately there are always going to be greedy people in the world and those become the poster individuals for those that want to destroy the economic system we have. Overall however the good still outweighs the bad and anyone that violates their responsibility should be prosecuted and that includes those "evil" corporations. Our economy is too diverse and too dependent on the private sector to be destroyed by a few bad apples.
    What about the CEOs and their responsibility to keep the financial world from collapsing, not to try to bring it to its knees just so they can get rich?

    Edit: Also, seeing what you wrote, do you favor some regulation of the financial industry?
    Last edited by Mr. Invisible; 03-21-11 at 11:58 AM.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    I wonder if people like you who constantly bitch about 'the corporate mentality' and talk about how evil corporations are, actually work for themselves, or for a corporation?
    Most work for the public sector and thus are insulated from economic downturns and individual competition. States do not go bankrupt or out of business, they just raise taxes on the citizens.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    What about the CEOs and their responsibility to keep the financial world from collapsing, not to try to bring it to its knees just so they can get rich?

    Edit: Also, seeing what you wrote, do you favor some regulation of the financial industry?
    CEO's have a responsibility and normally the free market takes care of them. There was enough blame to go around in the financial crisis but many here want to simply blame CEO's. That is hardly the case as our govt. contributed significantly. There is regulation in the financial industry and that is where govt. failed.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    if you dont ****ing like what I post, feel free to complain to a moderator or fell free to not ****ing read it.
    Why are you so angry? I was just giving you some friendly advice, you've been warned to add content in "Bias."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Why are you so angry? I was just giving you some friendly advice, you've been warned to add content in "Bias."
    when you are a moderator, feel free to give me advice... until then, kindly take your baiting and flaming and **** off.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    you are correct, you don't have total insight...you know precious little about how unions work....

    Well, I wouldn't go that far. See, not only was there that, but as I have routinely reminded you, I grew up in a UAW town, state. Most, if not ALL of my friends worked for GM in one way or another. And I saw first hand what they got away with. The video of the workers from Detroit not too long ago wasn't that far off at all.

    As for when I worked for Pepsi, as a side loader delivery person, one of my best friends in MD was the shop steward, and yes I did attend meetings when they were offered. See we were a small shop with only 14 drivers, and the local that represented us couldn't have cared less about anything other than taking my dues money. I think in 4 years we had, or were invited to 3 meetings. Two of those were contract approval sessions, and one was to ask that we stand with some Warehouse that was considering a strike, for $50 per week. Meanwhile, the relationship that having union representation in that business caused was not one where I thought it was a smooth endeavor to say the least. Let's just say that it IMHO causes a friction that doesn't need to be.

    i'd be shocked if you attended one meeting in that whole time, and obviously didnt take the time to educate yourself...
    You make far too many assumptions to be taken seriously.

    tell me j, you have made your opinion well known, that you are anti-union, why take a job in a company that was unionized? seems to me that would have went against everything you stand for. certainly with your ' i don't need no stinkin' union' 'pull myself up by my bootstraps' way of thinking, being the resourceful guy that you are, you could have said 'no thanks' and went and found a non-union job...so...why did you stick around that long?
    This was early on in my driving career, and I was very young with a family. I didn't know much back then and still thought that unions were ok. Chalk it up to being young and dumb...As I have been around for some time now it is not only Michigan, and my stint in Maryland that formed my opinion. My wife's father was Union all the way. Beth Steel in Baltimore for 40 years. In his prime that facility was over 5,000 strong, and a vibrant part of Baltimore. Now it would break your heart to see what it is. Little more than an eye sore on the way in to the harbor of Baltimore. With as few as 250 employees. When he retired, he had a pension, and a clock given him as a thanks for his 40 years of that place, and not two years after that he was informed that their pension fund was dead broke, and that it would be placed with the State for receivership, his monthly was cut by 2/3. Yeah he really came out good with that didn't he?

    Let me just close with this. I am not totally anti Union. I can see where in a world of pendulum reality, that unions have a place with certain workplaces. Especially where work conditions, and safety of the employees are not being addressed by an employer properly. When my wife worked for Exel down here was a prime example. But, the problem is that unions inherently become corrupt, and go beyond what is a symbiotic relationship with the company's they destroy, and move toward greed themselves sucking the well dry, and then destroying the businesses they go after. And what of the people that the Unions have a direct hand in making available to the job market? huh? Do they care? hell no. When the business closes under the weight of the demands of the union mob, then the union just moves on and leaves its once proud members to dry up and blow away, in search of the next business concern to lean on for their protection racket.

    Now your turn.

    j-mac
    Last edited by j-mac; 03-21-11 at 01:27 PM.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    CEO's have a responsibility and normally the free market takes care of them. There was enough blame to go around in the financial crisis but many here want to simply blame CEO's. That is hardly the case as our govt. contributed significantly. There is regulation in the financial industry and that is where govt. failed.
    The government shares a large portion of the blame. They removed the regulations which kept the industry in check. Without those restrictions and regulations, the banks acted unrestrained to maximize profit; which is what business does. However, the unfettered release of their leveraging abilities allowed the banks to operate in a regime which was not sustainable, and it broke; quite spectacularly. No, the CEO's are not to blame either. There must be proper regulation from the government as well.
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