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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #151
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    1. Democrats and Republicans both feed greedy ****s (I would never deny this), I have a hard time getting over the fact that the greediest of them all love the Republican Party and not to mention that least greedy of them all are Democrats who encourage the government to increase their taxes.
    Wait...so The republicans are the greedy ones for reducing taxes and Democrats are the least greedy for wanting to increase taxes???? Where the hell is the logic in that? As my wife would say..."That's insane troll logic".

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    2. Being an independent doesn't meant that you don't subscribe to any conservative values or make any conservative arguments. Independent doesn't mean neutral.
    No what being Independent means is that we talk on the issues...not on the party. We don't care what party supports X issue. We care about the issue itself. As such if we happen to support an issue that Democrats love and Republicans hate, we don't care who hates us for it and who likes us for it. The same goes if Republicans like what we are supporting and Democrats hate it. Issues are not about an ideology based on politics. Issues are about reality on what needs to be done/not done.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    3. I've studied plenty. I'm glad you make businesses the poor little guys who were forced to leave the country because the unions had to many demands. I've heard this argument made many a time...by conservatives. Businesses (not all, but many) are greedy - that's why they move their business to places where they can underpay their workers and let them work in horrible conditions - see a famous case - Nike.
    Of course, ignore reality so that you can continue along your party line. As for what you actually said...Like I said..Unions are only PART of the reasons that they leave. I never said it was the only reason or the main cause. I said it was PART of the reasons. You need to widen your studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    4. Like I said, the U.S. is capable of meeting the demands of the unions because they ****ing agreed to make monetary concessions so long as they could keep collective bargaining...Walker doesn't care.
    Monetary concessions made by politicians that just wanted to thier support to get re-elected. And you're right...apparently Walker doesn't care. It is quite apparent that Walker is willing to do things that might hurt his chances at re-election yet will benefit his state. As such...Kudos Walker. We need more people like him.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    5. It is interesting how they are so adamant about attacking working class salaries and not adamant about attacking wealthy people who can afford to give a little extra in taxes. Why are working class people supposed to sacrifice but not wealthy people who still get multi-million dollar bonuses and lower taxes.
    Do you think that you are entitled to the money that wealthy people have just because they can afford a bit more than you?
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  2. #152
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Well, unless the Dems don't plan on returning to the legislature until this issue has wound its way through the courts, I think that'll end up being a moot point.
    agreed, but that is the only rule violation that could possibly stick, and it wouldn't stick for long.

  3. #153
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I am really surprised by this, actually. It's almost unbelievable. I think that Republicans probably dotted their i's and crossed their t's on this....so it'll probably stand. Now we wait to see if unions can convince enough average Wisconsinites to recall some of the Republicans.....and if the Republicans recall less Dems...and roll back the legislation. Personally, I don't think that's going to be particularly easy. Democracy in action, I guess.

    As for the tactic, I say, Good for them. Governor Walker, you rock.
    And if the Democratic legislators now return to Wisconsin, the first order of business tomorrow morning should be to bring this legislation to a vote again, just to be absolutely sure.
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  4. #154
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights without Dems



    I don't know if they're cowards, they just risked a massive recall to carry out the agenda of a few billionaire GOP supporters...

    I'd say they're just dumb cheeseheads.

    Dude, both parties are controlled by the same people. Check out OpenSecrets.org: Money in Politics -- See Who's Giving & Who's Getting to see who funds them.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  5. #155
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And if the Democratic legislators now return to Wisconsin, the first order of business tomorrow morning should be to bring this legislation to a vote again, just to be absolutely sure.
    Actually, the minority leader is meeting with the Attorney General tomorrow, with the intention of filing a lawsuit. The final decision is going to be made by the courts.
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  6. #156
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You what's really dumb? Believing that good teachers are 'occassionally' fired or targeted (see teachers who refused to go along with the ever popular government tactic of inflating grades to feign improvement)
    Frankly I don't give a god damn. The schools are there to educate the students, not to provide teachers with jobs. I only care about their job security inasmuch as it encourages qualified people to become teachers in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive
    and that the worst teachers are common enough to need to change the system.
    Have you ever set foot in an inner-city school? I have. There are some schools where over half the teachers are awful.

    Personally I went to high school in a relatively well-off suburban area, and even in my school, there were plenty of bad teachers. Bad teachers certainly are common, and are the single biggest school-related factor that can impede a child's education.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplayone
    If government really cared about getting rid of 'bad' teachers, they would have fired all of the non-tenured ones...which they haven't.
    Huh? You're saying all non-tenured are bad? Or that there aren't any bad teachers with tenure?

    The bottom line of your post is simple: It's all about the teachers. Who gives a **** about the students, the reason for the schools' existence is to be a make-work program for teachers.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Four quick thoughts:

    1. Choices have consequences. According to news reports, a compromise formula was floated by the Governor during the weekend, but was rejected. The legislative action today leaves the public workers unions in a worse position than if the Democratic Party lawmakers had accepted the compromise.

    Of course, the Republican maneuver will have its own consequences. Recall petitions underway point to one risk. The regular electoral process points to another.

    2. The move was about leverage. Substantive fiscal concessions were agreed. No change in collective bargaining was required. But politics is not just about finances. Power does matter.

    Specifically, the proposal sought to shift the balance of bargaining power to the State and its municipalities. The implied intent is to allow the State and municipalities greater ability to achieve necessary savings through spending/benefit reductions/limitations so as to avoid tax hikes. In other words, the idea was to alter the bargaining landscape to make the Republican approach to fiscal consolidation (spending side, not tax side) easier to achieve.

    The move was also about the Governor's gaining leverage for future fights that might well lie ahead. What he will do with the opportunity any greater leverage affords him remains to be seen. That greater leverage is not assured, as it is possible that Democrats could now turn every piece of legislation into an almost existential fight. If so, the legislative process could become even more divisive and the pace of legislation could slow dramatically.

    In any case, power is a dimension of politics, as it is in business, foreign policy, etc. That there was a power dimension at play is not all that surprising.

    3. There is political risk. If elections were held today, recent polling indicates that Governor Walker would lose. The legislative fait accompli could intensify and sustain opposition to the Governor and Republicans, in general, leading to dramatic electoral changes. However, that outcome is not assured. If the State undergoes a dramatic turnaround in its fiscal picture and the State's economy does well, the Governor and Republicans could well overcome the current fallout from the legislative maneuver.

    4. The outcome in Wisconsin could give political leaders in other states greater leverage in their dealings with public workers unions. The unions, eager to avoid a Wisconsin-style loss of collective bargaining rights, could be more willing to compromise on health and pension benefits than would otherwise be the case. For example, New York's public unions might be more willing to accept Governor Cuomo's proposed one-year salary freeze than they have been to date. At the same time, witnessing the polarizing debate that racked Wisconsin's political scene, political leaders could attempt a softer route than one that targets collective bargaining rights.

  8. #158
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Actually, the minority leader is meeting with the Attorney General tomorrow, with the intention of filing a lawsuit. The final decision is going to be made by the courts.
    If they meet in Wisconsin, hopefully the minority leader is arrested and summoned to the Capitol, along with anyone else who has returned. Then they can vote again and there won't be any question about its legality.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    massive cuts in military personel that GOP failed to do even though the cold war had ended.
    Right.....and without those "massive military cuts".....the economy would have been in the ****ter during the 1990's.....

    .....all hail Clinton.....our first black saviour......
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Can you name one Clinton Policy that was responsible for the Economic boom of the 90's?.
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    .........down goes another.
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    Umm...the first budget that he proposed which every Republican voted against and yet contributed heavily to the decline of the budget deficit and to the surplus that he left George W. Bush. It was called: the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993.

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