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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    I'm not an economist, but I think I could agree to no tax shelters. Also, all income only taxed once so no death taxes.
    Yeah, that's probably ok. Though personally, I hate Paris Hilton, which is good argument for death taxes. heheh.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I believe we went through that yesterday but you ignored the question again, do you realize those were projections and not actual dollars?
    Yes, I pointed out to you the projections underestimated the amount by $50 billion a year. Our tax cuts to the wealthy average about $150 billion a year.


    How is allowing someone to keep more of what they earn an expense to the govt?

    If we all lived in Shangrala, I guess taxes wouldn't be necessary. However, not paying our bills has created an unmanagable national debt.

    You really are naive or is this an act? I posted how much the rich pay of the tax revenue, how much should they pay since the top 10% pay 70% of all tax revenue? Where is your outrage against the 47% that don't pay any federal income taxes?

    Half the country has no money left over after survival needs. I thought Reaganomics was going to float everyone's boat. It appears to have left half the country high and dry? Please describe your proposed plan to get more blood from a turnip?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    So, paying one's fair share to you means taking away a few thousand in tax credits that greatly benefit poor working families while continuing to give people who earn over a million a $93k tax credit. Got it. Thanks for showing how "fair" the right can be.
    The left's idea of fair share is equal to infinity. But nevertheless, your idea of stealing from the rich to give to the poor (or in other words taking from those who create wealth and giving to those that don't), is great in story books like Robin Hood.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Catawba;1059355839]Yes, I pointed out to you the projections underestimated the amount by $50 billion a year. Our tax cuts to the wealthy average about $150 billion a year.
    Cannot help but notice that not once have you questioned the amount being spent by this govt. as if it is all necessary and second not one word on what those evil rich people did with those tax dollars that they saved and if that had any affect on the economy including jobs?


    If we all lived in Shangrala, I guess taxes wouldn't be necessary. However, not paying our bills has created an unmanagable national debt.
    Again, no discussion on how the money the govt. gets is spent but only about the govt. not getting enough. You don't have a problem with the amount spent?



    Half the country has no money left over after survival needs. I thought Reaganomics was going to float everyone's boat. It appears to have left half the country high and dry? Please describe your proposed plan to get more blood from a turnip
    You seem to be an expert on what the 47% that don't pay income taxes have in terms of expenses. What makes you an expert? I will be happy to answer your other question when you tell me exactly how much the rich should be paying in Federal Income taxes since 38% of all tax revenue comes from them now and that excludes state and local taxes?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Cannot help but notice that not once have you questioned the amount being spent by this govt. as if it is all necessary and second not one word on what those evil rich people did with those tax dollars that they saved and if that had any affect on the economy including jobs?
    Then you haven't been paying attention. We need to cut our spending as well, we spend way to much and we have way too little income since we slashed the progressive tax rate in this country. I'll say it again we need both spending cuts and to eliminate the tax cuts to the wealthy if we are ever going to dig our way out of the hole we are in.
    History has shown us that the tax cuts to the rich did not result in new jobs in this country. Every tax cut produced a short-term bubble followed by a recession, this last one almost a Great Depression, all while the middle class continues to decline.

    You seem to be an expert on what the 47% that don't pay income taxes have in terms of expenses. What makes you an expert?
    No expert, I just don't hide from the statistics.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    =Catawba;1059355859]Then you haven't been paying attention. We need to cut our spending as well, we spend way to much and we have way too little income since we slashed the progressive tax rate in this country. I'll say it again we need both spending cuts and to eliminate the tax cuts to the wealthy if we are ever going to dig our way out of the hole we are in.
    History has shown us that the tax cuts to the rich did not result in new jobs in this country. Every tax cut produced a short-term bubble followed by a recession, this last one almost a Great Depression, all while the middle class continues to decline.
    You really love that term progressive tax rates but as you have shown you haven't a clue as to how much revenue that actually generated for the govt. You are so obsessed with how much someone else pays that it doesn't give you a lot of credibility on the issue. I am still waiting for you or anyone else to explain to me how tax rate cuts under Reagan of 10-10-5% to all taxpayers doubled govt. tax revenue? Or how the Bush tax rate cuts had similar results of growing tax revenue? Very frustrating dealing with people who don't know history or argue the indefensible. Just makes you look foolish. You actually believe tax cuts for the rich are making the middle class poorer? Prove it. My bet is that a lot of those middle class people who have declined have similar class envy positions as you.

    You continue to buy the Obama rhetoric yet Obama supported the extension of the tax cuts and actually signed the bill. In addition he added 3.5 trillion to the debt in just two years with another 1.6 trillion this year which will add more debt in 3 years than Bush added in 8. Tax all the wealth away from the rich and you still won't pay down the debt. You don't have any concept of how much 14.3 trillion dollars is. Let me help you, it is almost the entire U.S Economy.


    No expert, I just don't hide from the statistics.
    You haven't offered any statistics, just opinions and projections. In the last 10 years the debt has grown by 9 trillion dollars so if you got that trillion dollars over ten years the debt would still be over 8 trillion dollars? How much do you think the 15 million unemployed people are paying in income taxes? You certainly aren't an expert inspite of trying to come across as one.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Then you haven't been paying attention. We need to cut our spending as well, we spend way to much and we have way too little income since we slashed the progressive tax rate in this country. I'll say it again we need both spending cuts and to eliminate the tax cuts to the wealthy if we are ever going to dig our way out of the hole we are in.
    History has shown us that the tax cuts to the rich did not result in new jobs in this country. Every tax cut produced a short-term bubble followed by a recession, this last one almost a Great Depression, all while the middle class continues to decline.



    No expert, I just don't hide from the statistics.
    What would you say if we cut the entire defense budget?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    What would you say if we cut the entire defense budget?
    I am for maintaining an adequate defense of our country, not of our world wide occupation forces. The two wars we are in have cost us over 3 trillion dollars alone, exceeding the cost of Vietnam or WWII. And neither Iraq or Afghanistan attacked us or their neighbors.

    We currently spend as much as the rest of the world combined on military. We could easily cut our military by 3/4 and still be the most powerful country on the planet.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I am for maintaining an adequate defense of our country, not of our world wide occupation forces. The two wars we are in have cost us over 3 trillion dollars alone, exceeding the cost of Vietnam or WWII. And neither Iraq or Afghanistan attacked us or their neighbors.

    We currently spend as much as the rest of the world combined on military. We could easily cut our military by 3/4 and still be the most powerful country on the planet.
    And then we could afford to pay public sector union workers more money.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I don't see that as a problem, all costs are just passed on the the consumer.

    Adam Smith, the author of Weath Of Nations (1776), is considered the father of modern capitalism, do you think he would favor moving the manufacturing base off shore to escape taxes?????
    Then you really are off your game (not that you're ever really on it). It's sad that you are unable to comprehend that maintaining manufacturing facilities here in the states for many things and passing that higher cost onto consumers would kill many businesses today. To think consumers would simply pay the highercosts and think nothing of it, is patently stupid. You may be willing to pay 4 times the cost of a foreign made product, but many others are not.

    Your mention of Adam Smith is a huge strawman, possibly the biggest you've ever tried to use. It is ridiculous to compare 1776 to 2011 in that way. It's not a matter of approval or disapproval regarding moving manufacturing offshore, it's a matter of reality of costs. It's simply less expensive, so that's why it's done.

    You also might want to quote the complete title, 'An Inquiry into The Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations'.

    Here... educate yourself...
    Complete text: An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations

    Hell... Smith even predicted the rise of China as a manufacturing country...

    Book 4, Chapter 9, paragraph 41...
    The perfection of manufacturing industry, it must be remembered, depends altogether upon the division of labour; and the degree to which the division of labour can be introduced into any manufacture is necessarily regulated, it has already been shown, *85 by the extent of the market. But the great extent of the empire of China, the vast multitude of its inhabitants, the variety of climate, and consequently of productions in its different provinces, and the easy communication by means of water carriage between the greater part of them, render the home market of that country of so great extent as to be alone sufficient to support very great manufactures, and to admit of very considerable subdivisions of labour. The home market of China is, perhaps, in extent, not much inferior to the market of all the different countries of Europe put together. *86 A more extensive foreign trade, however, which to this great home market added the foreign market of all the rest of the world; especially if any considerable part of this trade was carried on in Chinese ships; could scarce fail to increase very much the manufactures of China, and to improve very much the productive powers of its manufacturing industry. By a more extensive navigation, the Chinese would naturally learn the art of using and constructing themselves all the different machines made use of in other countries, as well as the other *87 improvements of art and industry which are practised in all the different parts of the world. Upon their present plan they have little opportunity except that of the Japanese.
    So yet again, you are shown to not have the slightest clue what you're talking about, and your own source works against you.

    Here endeth the lesson.
    Last edited by Whovian; 03-17-11 at 09:06 PM.

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