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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #1381
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Sorry I took so long, real life sometimes needs tending to .
    No problem.

    Okay here is My suggestion.

    Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003 (TruthAndPolitics.org)

    Study that chart... and see what each tax cut, did to the top bracket, and what each increase did the to the top bracket.
    What did they do? I'm getting what you mean.

    Now lets compromise.... lets not increase the tax percentage at all, and I believe this could get enough support to pass both houses, lets just drop that “taxable income over” figure back to $200,000 that Obama wants to use. Obama likes to use 5% of the population making more then that … I disagree with that number so will cut it in half. That effects only 2.5% of our working people. And they would be paying $60,760.(2/3s of that 91,000 you constantly harp about) more each .. that equals roughly 225 billion dollars in added revenue.

    Now for this tax increase, of 225 billion, I want not 6 billion that dem's want, not 60 billion that rep's want but 112.5 billion dollars in cuts on this years budget.
    That would certainly be a start but I do not think the GOP would ever go along with this.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Profit and wealth creation are not bad in a free market environment. But free market is not what we have. We have corporate capitalism which then preferentially through government law and regulation select out specific entities in the economic sector to promote. In such a system profit and wealth "creation" is isolated to the very very top of the population, within less than a percent of the populace. They start gaining all the gains, and everyone else loses. That is currently where we are at. And we can clearly see that in the aggregated statistics of wealth creation. The poor get poorer, the middle class is shrinking, and the top like 0.5% are becoming obscenly rich. In true free market, people don't tend to get that rich as no one is actually worth that amount of money. And free market creates plenty of economic mobility; the poor can become richer, the rich can become poorer and you must input work constantly into the system to maintain your status.
    You talk like corporations are individual entities but aren't, they are people, people run corporations, people hire other people, people make products that are sold for a profit, taxes are collected on those profits, charitable giving is provided by those profits, dividends to shareholders are generated by those profits. Yours seems to be a zero sum game where someone wins at the expense of someone else. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    You seem to be very jealous of what others have instead of focusing on what you control. Why do you care what someone else makes? A better question though is why aren't you trying to become one of those rich people so you can be demonized by others?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    I can settle this, easily, what Wisconsin should do, it fold up their public school system, go to all private schools. They could put each public school up for sale, (helps with their deficit) That part of the property tax that is for the school system, is given back to the parents in the for of a voucher one month before the start of the school year.

    There problem solved, teachers can then work out if they want to unionize or not, the state is not paying them anything.
    LOL! Sure, then we can turn over our government to direct corporate rule and just eliminate the middle man, us. Sounds like the ultimate solution!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You talk like corporations are individual entities but aren't, they are people, people run corporations, people hire other people, people make products that are sold for a profit, taxes are collected on those profits, charitable giving is provided by those profits, dividends to shareholders are generated by those profits. Yours seems to be a zero sum game where someone wins at the expense of someone else. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    You seem to be very jealous of what others have instead of focusing on what you control. Why do you care what someone else makes? A better question though is why aren't you trying to become one of those rich people so you can be demonized by others?
    Corporations are treated like legal people. Remember the whole SCOTUS ruling on McCain/Fiengold which was the exact opposite ruling that it should have been? Corporations themselves are not actually individuals. That is why, in fact, corporations have no rights. It's not that I'm jealous, that's just a ridiculous and untrue statement that seems most likely bent on deflection. It is a statement of our current system. I like free market capitalism, we do not have it. I would like to drive us into the free market state. Being part of the problem doesn't achieve those ends.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Corporations are treated like legal people. Remember the whole SCOTUS ruling on McCain/Fiengold which was the exact opposite ruling that it should have been? Corporations themselves are not actually individuals. That is why, in fact, corporations have no rights. It's not that I'm jealous, that's just a ridiculous and untrue statement that seems most likely bent on deflection. It is a statement of our current system. I like free market capitalism, we do not have it. I would like to drive us into the free market state. Being part of the problem doesn't achieve those ends.
    Corporations are legal entities designed to reduce individual liability. They are run by individuals as corporations do not make decisions, people do. Now respond to the rest of my post regarding corporations paying taxes, individuals in those corporations paying taxes, corporations paying dividends and donating to charities? A lot of seniors rely on dividends from those evil corporations.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    LOL! Sure, then we can turn over our government to direct corporate rule and just eliminate the middle man, us. Sounds like the ultimate solution!
    Not really sure what you mean by that .... how is that much different them our college system today ?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Corporations are legal entities designed to reduce individual liability. They are run by individuals as corporations do not make decisions, people do. Now respond to the rest of my post regarding corporations paying taxes, individuals in those corporations paying taxes, corporations paying dividends and donating to charities? A lot of seniors rely on dividends from those evil corporations.
    The return they have on corporate capitalism endorsed through the government is larger than the taxes they pay. Much of this is old school types of clubs where board of directors have power, but they're all from the same group. The actual stock holders have very little input (they are the company owners). People donate to charities, but that won't make me ignore the perks they get from improper government law and regulation. Maybe a lot of "seniors rely on dividends" (they don't have to pay it out, BTW, Buffet's company doesn't), but it's still a system of corporate capitalism. In free market those people can do just as good if not better. Corporations are not inherently good or evil, they are just corporations. However, they are also nothing special. For every rich person, I bet I can find 100's at the least to replace them who can probably do a better job if they are able to participate equally in the system. Rich people are rich, they are not better than anyone else. A corporation is just a corporation, it is not better than any small business.

    Free market capitalism should be the goal to strive for. I'm surprised a "conservative" wouldn't agree.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Not really sure what you mean by that .... how is that much different them our college system today ?
    Primary and secondary education are arguably the most important function of state and federal government. Why on earth would we want to turn over the education of our future generations to corporations?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #1389
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You talk like corporations are individual entities but aren't, they are people, people run corporations, people hire other people, people make products that are sold for a profit, taxes are collected on those profits, charitable giving is provided by those profits, dividends to shareholders are generated by those profits. Yours seems to be a zero sum game where someone wins at the expense of someone else. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    You seem to be very jealous of what others have instead of focusing on what you control. Why do you care what someone else makes? A better question though is why aren't you trying to become one of those rich people so you can be demonized by others?
    I just really don't get the demonizing of the rich. I don't recall that in my younger years.
    When I was young, I remember those who were thought the least of were the able bodied ones who lived off welfare and foodstamps.
    Wealth was something to strive for with hard work. People took pride in being a good provider for their families. They were considered an asset to society.
    Now they are demonized as if they are the ones not earning their own way.
    I just don't understand the thinking.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    I just really don't get the demonizing of the rich. I don't recall that in my younger years.
    When I was young, I remember those who were thought the least of were the able bodied ones who lived off welfare and foodstamps.
    Wealth was something to strive for with hard work. People took pride in being a good provider for their families. They were considered an asset to society.
    Now they are demonized as if they are the ones not earning their own way.
    I just don't understand the thinking.
    It's not "demonizing the rich". The rich just ain't special just because they're rich. They should be treated the same in the eyes of the law. No special perks or privilege, You're rich, you don't need any of that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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