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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, i've known randel for a minute, and he's smarter and more independent than you are giving him credit for.

    he's just wrong about unions he joined the UAW about the time it was finishing the destruction of the American Auto industry, and methinks perhaps he worked himself a bit hard attempting to defend his new organization from quite alot of (well deserved) attack.
    thanks for the compliment...i think?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    cp, i've provided links in various threads, if you are seriously interested, look up my posts and find them...yes, walker is trying to weaken the unions, hoping that people won't pay their dues, thus weakening the union, hurting their ability to organize, and effectively negotiate contracts.. and this is only the first step, i'm sure he is looking for a way to include all unions, public and private sectors, in this plan.
    why would that effect the unions? firstly, if people are giving them untold millions in private donations (and i would love to see any support for that), then it's not like they're going to stop paying dues (like they did in Indiana). Secondly, since those people are giving their own money freely, the bill has no effect on them, which makes the contention that this will weaken unions silly.

    your arguments are mutually exclusive, old friend .

    as for "you're sure he's looking for a way to include all unions", i would doubt that quite a bit. private unions aren't the ones threatening local and state governments; public ones are. public and private unions are very different beasts; not a little because the private sector ones are obliged to at least want to keep their company above water.

    but i tell you what, if Walker ever moves to ban collective bargaining for private unions at private companies, then i will join you on the picket line.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    seriously? andrew klavan? just move on now if this is all you have got
    this is called the "ad sourcinem" fallacy

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    the only fool here is you conservative, and i will gladly take the demerits if a mod wishes to hit me with them...you speak of things that you have no knowledge of, and when challenged, everyone of your opponents suddenly become knuckledragging neanderthals who could benefit from your brand of 'wisdom'....sorry, i don't consider it to be 'forced membership', as i had a CHOICE when i applied with my company...the first thing i was asked when i had my interview was ' do you have any problem with working in a union shop?' no i didnt...the second question i was asked was asked/told was' you will have two hours of straight time pay per month deducted from your wages for union dues, do you have a problem with this? no, no i did not.

    there was no attempt at deception on anyone's part, it was made clear to me from the very start that the job i was trying to get was in a unionized shop, and that i would be responsible for union dues...NOTHING WAS FORCED.


    later on after i became chairperson of the plant bargaining committee, management would ask me to sit in with potential groups of new hires , to explain the union to them, and how things worked....part of that discussion included from the get go...this is a union shop, does anyone here have a problem working in a union shop or with the UAW? The second thing i mentioned was their union dues, how much, and when they would come out. so these folks had a CHOICE at this point . i never had one person stand up and leave when i mentioned that it was a union shop and that they would be responsible for dues...NOT A ONE.

    finally, i've explained a million and one times where the money for political activities comes from, you choose to ignore facts and continue to enjoy your fantasy of where you THIINK they come from.
    For someone who is such an expert on unions you really have no clue as to the inner workings of unions. I have more experience in unions than you ever will have being involved in union negotiations on union contracts. Unions spend millions and millions of dollars on campaigns and yet you still believe all those "donations" are voluntary. You are naive beyond words.

    As for choice, no question about it, people are told going in that this is a union shop and you have a choice to either take the job or find another one. Interesting that choice is important but other choices aren't depending the situation and whether or not it supports liberal causes. I suggest that you read the Walker bill probably for the first time and tell me what is wrong with that bill. I then expect you to dodge once again the question as to why Wisconsin taxpayers should support full union bargaining rights at the state level but Federal union employees funded by the national taxpayers don't have those rights?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    If we didn't have crooked politicians....if the negotiators sitting at the table with unions were honest...we would not be having this discussion. Negotiators gave away the store. Bought and paid for with union dollars.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    this is called the "ad sourcinem" fallacy
    dude, it's andrew fricking klavan...you will forgive me of course if i don't give him much credit as a source of how things work. ....anyhoo, good talkin' to ya cp, i'll pick up with ya later, stay safe my friend.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    seriously? andrew klavan? just move on now if this is all you have got
    what exactly does Andrew Klavan have wrong? Specifics??

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    what exactly does Andrew Klavan have wrong? Specifics??
    It's Klavan. Andrew frickin' Klaven.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You have been shown over and over how taxpayer money gets to the unions, you choose to ignore it.
    Yeah, we've been shown. But it's all distortion and make believe.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It's Klavan. Andrew frickin' Klaven.
    Maybe that is the problem, he got his name wrong.

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