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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #1231
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, they can quit.
    So they cannot keep their job unless they pay their union dues ... I agree they have a choice, I'm not arguing they don't.

    So taxpayer money goes to the public sector via a line item in the budget in the form of public teacher salary - a portion (%) of that salary then is required to go to the union in the form of dues (or the teacher can quit and that portion will not go to the union), and the union then uses that money for various thing, one of them being support for Democrats elections who are sympathetic towards the unions.

    So follow the money...
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Thus part of the reason that private schools and charter schools are becoming more popular.
    I agree. So teachers can still get jobs without being 'forced' to join unions. Problem solved.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    QUOTE The Barbarian

    First lets remember we are only talking about public unions not private unions ..
    Would you put the Teamsters Union under the public union category?

    But for the sake of argument, lets go along with your idea that the public union is not funded by the taxpayer.
    chuckles is sitting the stage for his strawman.


    Ok, glad you’ve seen the light.

    If that is the case then I guess everyone saying that Walker is trying to destroy the unions, is a complete outright lie.
    Chuckles starts building his strawman here.


    Where did I say that Walker was trying to destroy the unions? He is trying to destroy COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, to selected unions ,in the state of Wisconsin. Remember he exempted some of the police and fire depts locals.


    It's simple really, seeing Walker only controls the tax dollars generated by the state of Wisconsin, and the public unions are “NOT” funded by taxpayer's dollars, then there can be no possible way for Walker to even try to destroy the union simply because Walker has absolutely no control over the funding of that union.
    a crescendo of straw.


    Kinda reminds me of Pink Floyds another brick on the wall but in this case its, another bale of straw onto the pile…pile those suckerS up.



    You can accuse him of attempting to lower the wages and benefits of Wisconsin state/city workers, but you cannot accuse him of trying to break the union, because if the union “ISN'T” funded by taxpayer's dollars, and it's only taxpayer's dollars that Walker controls. he is powerless to break the union.
    Almost there

    Comon chuckles, you can do better than this. Point me to where I said that Walker is trying to break, or destroy unions?


    In fact with your reasoning, seeing the union isn't funded by the taxpayer, then Walker could fire every unionized city/state worker, and the union should continue to thrive.
    FINELY a masterpiece of straw...i,m BUSHed.heh, heh, heh


    Naw, he is just trying to destroy collective bargaining for the unions that didn’t back him in his election…Hhmm…it seems he exempted police and firefighters from his attack on unions; wonder why that was? it couldn’t be because four locals of the police and firefighters backed him for gov could it? Surely not.
    Last edited by Donc; 03-16-11 at 02:47 PM.
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  4. #1234
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nice deflect. No one is being force. They all agreed to the contract when they took the job.
    I understand your point, but it is certainly concerning when the only true monopoly in the world holds this kind of power.

    If you want to be a law enforcement officer, you have no choice but to pay these union dues. As the public sector grows, the choice of the individual to not be a part of these “voluntary” organizations certainly diminishes.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I can see your point. This is where I have a different take.

    It's not the taxpayer's money that being forced to pay unions, it's the public worker's money that's being forced. In other words, when the money passes from government to public employee, it still becomes the property of the public employee (to me, that exchange is the same transfer of property in every scenario, forced to join or not). Therefore, public worker's are forced to spend their private property (their wages) on a union.
    I dont necessarily see a complete transfer of property when the state never gives the portion of the earnings to the employee and instead takes them out and funnels them directly to the unions with the employee having no say. but at least I see where you're coming from now.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's pretty conceited if you ask me.
    conceited? how so?


    One has the right to contract.
    That's right, in today's world though who knows what contract law even is anymore, after Obama got done trashing it.

    When an individual accepts the job at a public school, they do so my accepting the contract associated with it.
    Why can't a teacher negotiate their own contract personally?

    That was their choice.
    And there is the "forced" argument. Either join the union, or flip burgers.

    Don't take that away from them. They could have not accepted the job if they felt the terms of the contract are not what they want.
    Oh nice, either join or forget the job. And they say unions don't strong arm....

    But by signing the contract and exercising their right to contract, they thus agree to the terms of the contract. It's not hidden
    yeah, but it's not really a choice as you portray it either.

    it's not like they didn't agree to it and then all of a sudden money is disappearing out of their paycheck. That would be theft. They make the choice to accept the terms of contract. That's end of story.
    Your argument fly's out the window with 2 aspects...1. Card check - if that passes then you can not agree to it, and still be forced to vote for it. 2. When you declare "end of story" you have lost the argument.

    j-mac
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Indulge me and explain how"public unions get their money from public employees funded by the taxpayers".The key word is funded.
    I have an idea. Let's only raise property taxes on public workers. That way they will be funding more of their own raises and benefits.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Liberals must be so proud and happy! Nothing like indoctrinating our kids, right, liberals?

    RealClearPolitics - Video - Young Wisconsin Children Chant Against Gov. Scott Walker

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Have you not been paying attention to what has been going on in Wisconsin and other states? The GOP is clearly waging war on the middle class and the workers of America.
    Actually he is trying to avoid massive lay-offs. It's the union bosses waging war on the middle class.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Liberals must be so proud and happy! Nothing like indoctrinating our kids, right, liberals?

    RealClearPolitics - Video - Young Wisconsin Children Chant Against Gov. Scott Walker

    Those teachers who did this should be charged with child abuse.


    j-mac
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