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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #1221
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Now I agree with everything you just said, until we get to the part where a teacher “has” to belong to a union in Wisconsin, if it was a teachers choice to belong or not to belong,.... I would never have gotten into this fray..... But when you have to belong, and have to pay union dues, then in my opinion, that is nothing more then an added tax, and is just another payroll deduction, like federal income tax or SS
    I can see your point. This is where I have a different take.

    It's not the taxpayer's money that being forced to pay unions, it's the public worker's money that's being forced. In other words, when the money passes from government to public employee, it still becomes the property of the public employee (to me, that exchange is the same transfer of property in every scenario, forced to join or not). Therefore, public worker's are forced to spend their private property (their wages) on a union.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Thanks TPD, in that case, couldn't a logical argument be then that since these dues are deducted and that they are not voluntary, that it is indeed taxpayer money funneling into the union coffers for those that don't specifically write the checks.

    Think of it in the same argument of benefits included with salary. Most working people you ask when they see those two together, tend to scoff it off as not a true representation of pay, just as these union members have no choice nor do they actually write the check, so it really isn't their money.....

    j-mac
    That's pretty conceited if you ask me. One has the right to contract. When an individual accepts the job at a public school, they do so my accepting the contract associated with it. Which in this case stipulates participation in the Union. They voluntarily agreed to that. That was their choice. Don't take that away from them. They could have not accepted the job if they felt the terms of the contract are not what they want. But by signing the contract and exercising their right to contract, they thus agree to the terms of the contract. It's not hidden, it's not like they didn't agree to it and then all of a sudden money is disappearing out of their paycheck. That would be theft. They make the choice to accept the terms of contract. That's end of story.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Hard to deal with people who haven't a clue, like you. This is about forced union dues being paid to unions with pay that comes from the taxpayers. If you cannot understand that, sorry, but that makes you a typical stereotyped union employee who believes they're entitled to that money. Let's see how they like it when they are forced into paying those union dues by check instead of payroll deduction? Guess forcing the people to pay union dues is ok in your book?
    Nice deflect. No one is being force. They all agreed to the contract when they took the job.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yeah I guess I do have to belabor the point. So here's a question:

    Can the Wisconsin teachers, any of them, stop paying dues to the union?
    Yes, they can quit.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nice deflect. No one is being force. They all agreed to the contract when they took the job.
    Right, if you want a job in Wisconsin as a teacher you are forced into joining a union and thus forced into paying union dues thus unions telling the teachers how they have to spend part of their wages. Is there any doubt why liberal Democrats support unions?

    Leading Union Political Campaign Contributors
    1990-2010

    Democrats Republicans

    American Fed. of State, County, & Municipal Employees $40,281,900 $547,700

    Intel Brotherhood of Electrical Workers 29,705,600 679,000

    National Education Association 27,679,300 2,005,200

    Service Employees International Union 26,368,470 98,700

    Communication Workers of America 26,305,500 125,300

    Service Employees International Union 26,252,000 1,086,200

    Laborers Union 25,734,000 2,138,000

    American Federation of Teachers 25,682,800 200,000

    United Auto Workers 25,082,200 182,700

    Teamsters Union 24,926,400 1,822,000

    Carpenters and Joiners Union 24,094,100 2,658,000

    Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union 23,875,600 226,300

    United Food and Commercial Workers Union 23,182,000 334,200

    AFL-CIO 17,124,300 713,500

    Sheet Metal Workers Union 16,347,200 342,800

    Plumbers & Pipefitters Union 14,790,000 818,500

    Operating Engineers Union 13,840,000 2,309,500

    Airline Pilots Association 12,806,600 2,398,300

    International Association of Firefighters 12,421,700 2,685,400

    United Transportation Workers 11,807,000 1,459,300

    Ironworkers Union 11,638,900 936,000

    American Postal Workers Union 11,633,100 544,300

    Nat'l Active & Retired Fed. Employees Association 8,135,400 2,294,600

    Seafarers International Union 6,726,800 1,281,300

    Source: Center for Responsive Politics, Washington, D.C.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, they can quit.
    And go to a Charter school or private school that doesn't require union dues.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Except, the top bracket doesn't include only people earning millions, but anything 375k or above.
    I give nearly as much money to charity as I do in taxes and I don't earn millions. I am not selfish at all.
    We should stop that and send it to our government instead. They are so much better at spending our money than we are. {sarcasim}
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Right, if you want a job in Wisconsin as a teacher you are forced into joining a union and thus forced into paying union dues thus unions telling the teachers how they have to spend part of their wages. Is there any doubt why liberal Democrats support unions?

    Leading Union Political Campaign Contributors
    1990-2010

    Democrats Republicans

    American Fed. of State, County, & Municipal Employees $40,281,900 $547,700
    Intel Brotherhood of Electrical Workers 29,705,600 679,000
    National Education Association 27,679,300 2,005,200

    Etc.

    Source: Center for Responsive Politics, Washington, D.C.
    Private schools and charter schools do not require unions. You can't still be a teacher and not pay union dues.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, they can quit.
    And that would make you happy? If they aren't working where do they get their income to live? I have absolutely no problem with free choice and if the union teachers had a choice whether or not to join the unions then that would be fine, however in Wisconsin it is a close shop meaning they are forced into union membership, a concept you seem to have a hard time understanding.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Private schools and charter schools do not require unions. You can't still be a teacher and not pay union dues.
    Thus part of the reason that private schools and charter schools are becoming more popular.

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