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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I think it depends on the state. For Wisconsin it was automatic deduction until Walker's bill.



    First Read - Wisconsin law curbs union dues, certification

    Thanks TPD, in that case, couldn't a logical argument be then that since these dues are deducted and that they are not voluntary, that it is indeed taxpayer money funneling into the union coffers for those that don't specifically write the checks.

    Think of it in the same argument of benefits included with salary. Most working people you ask when they see those two together, tend to scoff it off as not a true representation of pay, just as these union members have no choice nor do they actually write the check, so it really isn't their money.....

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Didn't watch the video I see? Teacher's Union Explained!
    No, I don't have speakers on my work computer. But it doesn't matter as the Unions are not funded with taxpayer dollars.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    This, in my opinion, is one of the most significant parts of the bill. Union members will now have to write a check to pay their dues, rather than having it taken from their paycheck which tends to be forgotten.

    Now they will see and realize how much the union costs them each year.
    But how much have they won because of the union?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I think everyone understands that the salaries of public workers comes from the taxpayers (which public workers are themselves). People are taking issue with the fact that you think this gives other taxpayers a right to have an input on how public workers spend their money. By the same logic, anyone with a job has to answer to anyone that contributed to their salary.

    When the state gives the money to the public worker, that money becomes the property of the public worker. Public workers exchange work for money, they don't exchange work + rights to determine where they spend their salary for money.
    Now I agree with everything you just said, until we get to the part where a teacher “has” to belong to a union in Wisconsin, if it was a teachers choice to belong or not to belong,.... I would never have gotten into this fray..... But when you have to belong, and have to pay union dues, then in my opinion, that is nothing more then an added tax, and is just another payroll deduction, like federal income tax or SS

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, I don't have speakers on my work computer. But it doesn't matter as the Unions are not funded with taxpayer dollars.

    It really is semantics. The more pressing problem is with the relationship between unions and the democrat party.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    What shifting the goalposts? I haven't shifted anything, this has been my argument from the get go. You are trying to dodge and avoid the logical fallacies of your argument, which is why you refuse to address the points. You have no argument to defend your logic jump.

    It has EVERYTHING with work and compensation because that defines owner. You keep wanting to make a claim that this is funded by taxpayer dollars, but the only way that can be true is if the money paid to the Unions is taxpayer dollars, not private dollars. This is in fact integral to your argument. A teacher's money is their money. Once that money has been paid to an individual as compensation for labor, the money becomes THEIRS. It is no longer the government's. It is no longer tax payer dollars. It has become private dollars. And those private dollars go towards union dues. That's the end all be all of it. Your argument does not hold water.

    Now that last question of yours, that's a shifting of the goal posts. Because at no time has this argument ever, AND THE ROCK MEANS EVER, been about my opinion on the individual's ability to join or decline joining a union. I personally think someone should be free to do so. And if they choose not to support the union, that's fine; but they should not receive any of the benefits which have been brought by through the Union. Plain and simple. But this has NOTHING to do with those unions being "publically" funded or not.
    Hard to deal with people who haven't a clue, like you. This is about forced union dues being paid to unions with pay that comes from the taxpayers. If you cannot understand that, sorry, but that makes you a typical stereotyped union employee who believes they're entitled to that money. Let's see how they like it when they are forced into paying those union dues by check instead of payroll deduction? Guess forcing the people to pay union dues is ok in your book?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, I don't have speakers on my work computer. But it doesn't matter as the Unions are not funded with taxpayer dollars.
    Then when you get home view the video, quite educational

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    -chuckles- I don't often disagree with your posts, this is one I just happen to. without taxpayer funding, teachers would not have jobs, their employer is basically the taxpayers of Wisconsin, now I might bow out, if teachers were given the choice to belong to that union or not to. But they aren't, if you want to teach at a public school in Wisconsin, you have to be a union member. To be a union member your dues are mandatory, that money that they are paid, comes from the taxpayers of Wisconsin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I cannot believe you and others cannot see the connection. Where do you think the money comes from to fund the unions if not the salaries of the workers, a salary paid for by the taxpayers? Did you ever take a logic's class in school?
    Not to belabor the point, but once taxpayer dollars paid to employees in the form of salary, it ceases to belong to the taxpayer. If one is going to say these unions are taxpayer-funded, then I would expect to see a line item in the state's budget for it. Taking that stance is rather gaming the system.

    I can't believe, with all of the truly relevant points available to argue, that we're spending more than a nanosecond on this subject.

    Is this where we start talkin' rutabegas?
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    So, if the ownership of that money was transferred, I am sure that the individual employee can choose what to do with it. What if they choose not to pay the union dues?
    That's the other issue, should people be forced to join unions? I know that most conservatives, at least on here, say no, but I'm still on the fence. In theory, I think people should be able to choose whether they want to join unions/pay dues because no one should be forced. However, two things make me lean the other way: 1. There are jobs that don't require unions. Even teaching, one of the most heavily unionized professions, has many schools that don't require unions. 2. If unions negotiate things like higher pay, benefits, safer environments, etc., then those who don't pay union dues, strike or otherwise work with a union will benefit from things they didn't contribute to.

    So my argument is that people should choose their place of employment based on their desire to pay union dues (i.e. a teacher who wants to can work in a public school, a teacher who doesn't can work in a Charter school or private school/homeschooling organization).

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post



    Not to belabor the point, but once taxpayer dollars paid to employees in the form of salary, it ceases to belong to the taxpayer. If one is going to say these unions are taxpayer-funded, then I would expect to see a line item in the state's budget for it. Taking that stance is rather gaming the system.
    Yeah I guess I do have to belabor the point. So here's a question:

    Can the Wisconsin teachers, any of them, stop paying dues to the union?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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