Page 121 of 198 FirstFirst ... 2171111119120121122123131171 ... LastLast
Results 1,201 to 1,210 of 1973

Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #1201
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I see everything that you are doing as clear as day. It's called reverse engineering an argument. I used to do the same thing in 5th grade. You want to say the unions are publically supported and thus can be properly interfered with; you have to make that connection. You've made a leap in logic to do so because you ignore the fact that people have EARNED the money, thus making the money their own, not governments. The government has public schools, which teach all our children. The government needs teachers to work in those schools so that they can teach all our children. The government hires teachers to teach in those schools which teach all our children. The government PAYS the teachers for THEIR WORK in those schools teaching all our children. The money the teachers get is no longer government money, it is now PRIVATE money. It has a new owner, and this is the step you purposefully and dishonestly skip over each and every time so that you can try to claim that the unions are supported via federal funding. Money changed hands, old owners became non-owners, previous non-owners became owners. This is the break down point of your logically flawed argument, in fact it is the actual logical flaw in your argument. At this point, it ceases to be taxpayer dollars and becomes private money held by an individual. An individual who agreed to contractual terms to join a union and thus is now obligated to pay the union. They agreed to those terms, we have right to contract and they exercised that right by agreeing to be in the union. The individual still made the choice. If they didn't want to be in that union, they didn't need to take that job. They made a choice.

    Your argument fails on nearly every level possible and in the end is nothing more than anti-union propaganda.
    What you are doing is shifting the goalposts and ignoring the content because you are blinded by an ideology. It has absolutely nothing to do with your work or your compensation but everything to do with forced union membership and forced payment of dues, dues which come from the salary you receive from the taxpayers. Apparently you have no problem being forced by the unions to pay dues out of the teacher's pay?

  2. #1202
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Keep shifting the goalposts, this has nothing to do with property rights or individual property it all, it is about unions forcing people to pay for union membership from money which comes from the taxpayers of Wisconsin. You have already said that you supported what Walker did so why are you diverting to another topic?
    I didn't shift the goalposts. The reason you have no claim to public workers' money is because when the government pays them, that money becomes their property.

    Also, I never once said I supported what Walker did. I have been one the most consistent people on this board for coming out against him. I would never say that.

  3. #1203
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Yes perhaps as you say.... it's childish, but that doesn't make it any less true, the bottom line is without taxpayer's money, those unions don't exist.
    No ****. Without taxpayer's money, public workers don't exist...so there would be no workers to need or want a union because the public sector itself wouldn't exist.

  4. #1204
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I tend to agree with the personal property argument, such as it is in here IF those public employees who work in a closed shop environment, get their pay, post tax, and have to physically write the check for their dues. Is that the case, or are the dues taken out line item like SS?


    j-mac
    I think it depends on the state. For Wisconsin it was automatic deduction until Walker's bill.

    The new Wisconsin law that limits public workers' collective-bargaining rights delivers big blows to public-service unions in two other ways: It ends the system for automatically deducting union dues from workers' paychecks and requires the unions to be certified as the workers' representation each year.
    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...-certification

  5. #1205
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Yes perhaps as you say.... it's childish, but that doesn't make it any less true, the bottom line is without taxpayer's money, those unions don't exist.
    The unions which serve public school teachers wouldn't exist without taxpayer money? Yes, that is true. Why? BECAUSE WITHOUT TAXPAYER MONEY THERE IS NO PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS!!!!!!!! Why, in the name of all that is logical, would a union exist to serve a clientele base which doesn't exist? It's not that they're "funded by taxpayer's money", it's that they happen to serve a base which is paid for their labor through tax payer money. If you didn't have public school teachers, yes you wouldn't have public school teacher unions. But what the hell sort of argument is that? Besides vapid and pointless, I mean.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #1206
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    9,812

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I didn't shift the goalposts. The reason you have no claim to public workers' money is because when the government pays them, that money becomes their property.
    So, if the ownership of that money was transferred, I am sure that the individual employee can choose what to do with it. What if they choose not to pay the union dues?

  7. #1207
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I didn't shift the goalposts. The reason you have no claim to public workers' money is because when the government pays them, that money becomes their property.

    Also, I never once said I supported what Walker did. I have been one the most consistent people on this board for coming out against him. I would never say that.
    Ok, my apology got you confused with Kane. Got it, you have no problem with unions demanding money from a workers paycheck but not taxpayers that paid them that money?

  8. #1208
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The unions which serve public school teachers wouldn't exist without taxpayer money? Yes, that is true. Why? BECAUSE WITHOUT TAXPAYER MONEY THERE IS NO PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS!!!!!!!! Why, in the name of all that is logical, would a union exist to serve a clientele base which doesn't exist? It's not that they're "funded by taxpayer's money", it's that they happen to serve a base which is paid for their labor through tax payer money. If you didn't have public school teachers, yes you wouldn't have public school teacher unions. But what the hell sort of argument is that? Besides vapid and pointless, I mean.
    Didn't watch the video I see? Teacher's Union Explained!

  9. #1209
    Sage
    Gill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    The Derby City
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 10:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    8,686

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I think it depends on the state. For Wisconsin it was automatic deduction until Walker's bill.



    First Read - Wisconsin law curbs union dues, certification
    This, in my opinion, is one of the most significant parts of the bill. Union members will now have to write a check to pay their dues, rather than having it taken from their paycheck which tends to be forgotten.

    Now they will see and realize how much the union costs them each year.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  10. #1210
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What you are doing is shifting the goalposts and ignoring the content because you are blinded by an ideology. It has absolutely nothing to do with your work or your compensation but everything to do with forced union membership and forced payment of dues, dues which come from the salary you receive from the taxpayers. Apparently you have no problem being forced by the unions to pay dues out of the teacher's pay?
    What shifting the goalposts? I haven't shifted anything, this has been my argument from the get go. You are trying to dodge and avoid the logical fallacies of your argument, which is why you refuse to address the points. You have no argument to defend your logic jump.

    It has EVERYTHING with work and compensation because that defines owner. You keep wanting to make a claim that this is funded by taxpayer dollars, but the only way that can be true is if the money paid to the Unions is taxpayer dollars, not private dollars. This is in fact integral to your argument. A teacher's money is their money. Once that money has been paid to an individual as compensation for labor, the money becomes THEIRS. It is no longer the government's. It is no longer tax payer dollars. It has become private dollars. And those private dollars go towards union dues. That's the end all be all of it. Your argument does not hold water.

    Now that last question of yours, that's a shifting of the goal posts. Because at no time has this argument ever, AND THE ROCK MEANS EVER, been about my opinion on the individual's ability to join or decline joining a union. I personally think someone should be free to do so. And if they choose not to support the union, that's fine; but they should not receive any of the benefits which have been brought by through the Union. Plain and simple. But this has NOTHING to do with those unions being "publically" funded or not.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •