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Thread: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights withou

  1. #1191
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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is just some of the dumbest, juvanile arguments I have ever seen. It completly ignores property and ownership. My landlord is not funded with taxpayer dollars, he is in part funded by MY dollars. You want to take away my labor, and it's bull****. You don't want to acknowledge MY WORK. That's what you're really saying. By continually claiming MY money is Taxpayer money you're saying I didn't earn it, that it was not fair trade.

    It is too early in the morning to deal with this level of stupid arguments.
    MY Dollars come from the wages paid for by the taxpayers. Cannot believe how brainwashed some people are and it is only stupid by those who fail to open their eyes. See if this explains it to you

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kxc6kzH-uI

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I think everyone understands that the salaries of public workers comes from the taxpayers (which public workers are themselves). People are taking issue with the fact that you think this gives other taxpayers a right to have an input on how public workers spend their money. By the same logic, anyone with a job has to answer to anyone that contributed to their salary.

    When the state gives the money to the public worker, that money becomes the property of the public worker. Public workers exchange work for money, they don't exchange work + rights to determine where they spend their salary for money.
    It apparently isn't a problem for you for Unions to tell their workers that they have to pay union dues?

    Seems to be quite a misunderstanding of how public unions vs. private unions work. See if this explains it better?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4Pw...layer_embedded

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Define what you consider public unions. Would the teamster local, that represents the Wasila Alaska police dept. be considered a public union?
    See if this explains the difference to you between public and private sector unions. You obviously don't get it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4Pw...layer_embedded

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    uh oh, illinois

    No Easy Fixes in Illinois Pension Mess - WSJ.com

    one of the very few united states with a democrat house, senate and gub is looking to BURN

    with state pensions ONLY FORTY FIVE PERCENT FUNDED (worst in the nation) the pols are pushing plans to punish employees by prescribing them to pay more, wait longer AND receive less

    even if ALL OF THE ABOVE is in direct violation of CONTRACTS agreed upon

    wait a minute, didn't GOVERNOR QUINN just raise taxes an astounding SIXTY SIX PERCENT?

    by taxing teachers TWENTY PERCENT towards retirement, illinois' unlucky leaders look to leverage a whole twenty five billion

    unfortunately, the state is EIGHTY TWO BIL beneath

    they're considering going to DC for help

    you can f-g-i that, forget about it

    how did we get here?

    how do we get out?

    why do teachers in my state of california draw retirements some FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT higher than ordinary americans who depend on insulting soc sec?

    THESE are the questions of our times
    Illinois is always ****ed. It has less to do with pensions and more to do with an endless cycle of stupid.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    It apparently isn't a problem for you for Unions to tell their workers that they have to pay union dues?

    Seems to be quite a misunderstanding of how public unions vs. private unions work. See if this explains it better?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4Pw...layer_embedded
    Study property, property rights and the history of both. Then come back.

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    MY Dollars come from the wages paid for by the taxpayers. Cannot believe how brainwashed some people are and it is only stupid by those who fail to open their eyes. See if this explains it to you

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kxc6kzH-uI
    I see everything that you are doing as clear as day. It's called reverse engineering an argument. I used to do the same thing in 5th grade. You want to say the unions are publically supported and thus can be properly interfered with; you have to make that connection. You've made a leap in logic to do so because you ignore the fact that people have EARNED the money, thus making the money their own, not governments. The government has public schools, which teach all our children. The government needs teachers to work in those schools so that they can teach all our children. The government hires teachers to teach in those schools which teach all our children. The government PAYS the teachers for THEIR WORK in those schools teaching all our children. The money the teachers get is no longer government money, it is now PRIVATE money. It has a new owner, and this is the step you purposefully and dishonestly skip over each and every time so that you can try to claim that the unions are supported via federal funding. Money changed hands, old owners became non-owners, previous non-owners became owners. This is the break down point of your logically flawed argument, in fact it is the actual logical flaw in your argument. At this point, it ceases to be taxpayer dollars and becomes private money held by an individual. An individual who agreed to contractual terms to join a union and thus is now obligated to pay the union. They agreed to those terms, we have right to contract and they exercised that right by agreeing to be in the union. The individual still made the choice. If they didn't want to be in that union, they didn't need to take that job. They made a choice.

    Your argument fails on nearly every level possible and in the end is nothing more than anti-union propaganda.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Study property, property rights and the history of both. Then come back.
    It's not a desire because it goes against what they want to try to say in their arguments. They want to claim that these unions are publically funded and then claim that because of it, there is proper action government can take against it. They are stuck there. If they want to claim that, they have to make the argument they've been making. It doesn't matter if they're wrong, there is political motivation to keep the argument due to the conclusion they want to push. It's a reverse engineered argument, but one they will cling to with all their might.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Study property, property rights and the history of both. Then come back.
    Keep shifting the goalposts, this has nothing to do with property rights or individual property it all, it is about unions forcing people to pay for union membership from money which comes from the taxpayers of Wisconsin. You have already said that you supported what Walker did so why are you diverting to another topic?

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    I tend to agree with the personal property argument, such as it is in here IF those public employees who work in a closed shop environment, get their pay, post tax, and have to physically write the check for their dues. Is that the case, or are the dues taken out line item like SS?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Wisconsin Republicans vote to strip public worker collective bargaining rights wi

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So because the money originated from the tax payer and ends up as Union dues eventually, the Unions are funded by the public? We're not considering the change in ownership of the money when it goes from the State to the teacher? I think it's a bit of a childish argument to state that the Unions themselves are funded by taxpayers because someone has to use part of their income and salary to pay dues to a union.
    Yes perhaps as you say.... it's childish, but that doesn't make it any less true, the bottom line is without taxpayer's money, those unions don't exist.

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