• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

ReverendHellh0und said:
They are subhuman, they are savages, and should be treated as such. your posturing about being an unemotional human, is a front, or you are a sociopath. Fact is we are human, and unless one is quite ****ed up, they have emotions attached to things. You claim no emotion, but I don't think you've ever been challenged enough to truly know. I think you would lose this facade of no-emotion if someone raped someone close to you.... :shrug:
Click to expand...

They are neither of those things. They were raised in this society, and they are just as human you or I. Stop trying to distance yourself from reality. I have plenty of emotion, I think I've expressed that. I just value logic more than them, and I have a rather abnormal way of thinking. People really like twisting what I say. I would react exactly the same, the only difference would be it would be right in front of me. I would give my condolences and support, it's not like I have some sort of magical brainwashing technique. What more could I do? That wouldn't make me change my views. You seem to be insinuating that I think rape doesn't matter, and I don't feel for those involved. I simply think about things on a larger scale, and crimes that effect a larger population of people take prevalence in my mind. This doesn't mean that I'm trivializing them, but I am simply acknowledging their smaller impact. I believe I stated multiple times that I honestly have sympathies with this girl.

Arcadius said:
Perhaps I am. Don't think I haven't considered it. But, I still think your failing to see my perspective correctly. I don't think humans should be void of emotion. I'm saying that sometimes someone needs to separate themselves from their emotion and look at things purely with logic. Perhaps I've come to rely on it too much and have become somewhat separate from my humanity. Humans have the ability to ignore empathy and take the most logical course of action. My logical course of action is that I can't get so worked up every time I hear about such an abundant crime. And if I focus on smaller crimes that only effect one small group of people, I become distant from greater societal injustices. I honestly have sympathy for this girl, and I hope she can grow up to have some semblance of a normal life.

But the thing is, she still has that that life. She's still going to get the psychological help she needs, she most likely has the support of her family, and being an American she still has the ability to overcome this and still live her life to the fullest. I can be disgusted all I want, but the fact is it's already happened, and there's nothing I can do for her. There's no point in getting so emotional about it. We do in fact have the ability to help these people and give them the stability and safety that we enjoy. But instead of trying to do this we're too busy killing brown people and arguing about gay marriage.

I'm pretty sure I have some sort of Messiah complex, (although I'd say it's not the exact same thing) that's become much more plausible with age, but is still there. And I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to systematically create a better society. I'd have to say I'm nowhere close to coming up with an effective solution, without gaining a ridiculous amount of support. I have in fact realized, that no matter how much they bother me I can't focus on small crimes that only effect a few individuals. I've also realized that one has to prioritize, make sacrifices, and discern things with logic.

I don't think without emotion. When faced with a dilemma I just always turn to logic over emotion. I have a way of thinking of everything on a global scale, which makes me appear very distant from individuals. But don't think I don't care.
Click to expand...

Please show me the part where I belittle rape. And where I say I have no emotion. I'm only comparing it to other crimes, and measuring the degree of it's detrimental effect, and the scope of it's detrimental effect. I'm sorry for applying analytical thought to such a sketchy subject.
 
Arcadius said:
They are neither of those things. They were raised in this society, and they are just as human you or I. Stop trying to distance yourself from reality. I have plenty of emotion, I think I've expressed that. I just value logic more than them, and I have a rather abnormal way of thinking. People really like twisting what I say. I would react exactly the same, the only difference would be it would be right in front of me. I would give my condolences and support, it's not like I have some sort of magical brainwashing technique. What more could I do? That wouldn't make me change my views. You seem to be insinuating that I think rape doesn't matter, and I don't feel for those involved. I simply think about things on a larger scale, and crimes that effect a larger population of people take prevalence in my mind. This doesn't mean that I'm trivializing them, but I am simply acknowledging their smaller impact. I believe I stated multiple times that I honestly have sympathies with this girl.
Click to expand...


So your a big picture kind of guy....... Like I said, posturing.
 
Arcadius said:
They are neither of those things. They were raised in this society, and they are just as human you or I.
Click to expand...

We all understand they are "human", That is not the issue. But do those who committed these crimes share common moral values, do they represent the society and culture we want to be, what we expect from ourselves and others? Where do we derive out morals, what constitutes decency, honesty, human values? How will the law respond? These are the questions we are asking ourselves, not whether or not Adolf Hitler or a Tsunami was worse in comparison.

This is a tragedy that strikes at the heart of every family, something we should all be able to understand and empathize with. So to claim that we need some kind of perspective misses the point entirely. It is not 'logical' to say there are worse happenings in the world, we all know that and can recognize that. It takes no real skill or insight to say that millions killed is on a different scale than the life of one little girl. It is just rather silly and pointless to even mention it, and it suggests no intellectual superiority in doing so.
Click to expand...
 
Grant said:
We all understand they are "human", That is not the issue. But do those who committed these crimes share common moral values, do they represent the society and culture we want to be, what we expect from ourselves and others? Where do we derive out morals, what constitutes decency, honesty, human values? How will the law respond? These are the questions we are asking ourselves, not whether or not Adolf Hitler or a Tsunami was worse in comparison.

This is a tragedy that strikes at the heart of every family, something we should all be able to understand and empathize with. So to claim that we need some kind of perspective misses the point entirely. It is not 'logical' to say there are worse happenings in the world, we all know that and can recognize that. It takes no real skill or insight to say that millions killed is on a different scale than the life of one little girl. It is just rather silly and pointless to even mention it, and it suggests no intellectual superiority in doing so.
Click to expand...
:doh:doh:doh

Of course that's obvious! I can't maintain my civility anymore. I guarantee you that in a month this crime will fade from memory of all those who weren't directly effected by it. This little girl will grow up and everyone will forget she ever existed. But larger problems in society that we can change are still there, and being completely ignored while we are getting all worked up about another f*cking story. People pay attention to these small crimes when f*cking genocide is going on. And worse yet, they don't care that no one's doing anything about. They're to worried about what happened to little Sally to pay attention to a whole world that's f*cked up to the tenth power. You can't change what happened to Sally, but you can change the world. Am I the only one that sees this?

:soap

This discussion is officially detrimental to my sanity. I'm definitely going to avoid topics like this in the future.
Click to expand...
 
Arcadius said:
Grant said:
:doh:doh:doh
Of course that's obvious! I can't maintain my civility anymore. I guarantee you that in a month this crime will fade from memory of all those who weren't directly effected by it.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's usually the case.

This little girl will grow up and everyone will forget she ever existed.
Click to expand...

Quite right.
But larger problems in society that we can change are still there, and being completely ignored while we are getting all worked up about another f*cking story.
Click to expand...

Then let's look at those larger problems.

People pay attention to these small crimes when f*cking genocide is going on.
Click to expand...

OK Which genocide are you referring to and what do you suggest we do about it?

And worse yet, they don't care that no one's doing anything about.
Click to expand...

Why not mention the genocide you have in mind, start a thread on the topic, and then see of anyone cares?

They're to worried about what happened to little Sally to pay attention to a whole world that's f*cked up to the tenth power. You can't change what happened to Sally, but you can change the world. Am I the only one that sees this?
Click to expand...

OK, Let's change the world. Where do you propose we start?

How about making the world safer for children?

This discussion is officially detrimental to my sanity. I'm definitely going to avoid topics like this in the future.
Click to expand...

You'd know best about that.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Arcadius said:
Grant said:
:doh:doh:doh

Of course that's obvious! I can't maintain my civility anymore. I guarantee you that in a month this crime will fade from memory of all those who weren't directly effected by it. This little girl will grow up and everyone will forget she ever existed. But larger problems in society that we can change are still there, and being completely ignored while we are getting all worked up about another f*cking story. People pay attention to these small crimes when f*cking genocide is going on. And worse yet, they don't care that no one's doing anything about. They're to worried about what happened to little Sally to pay attention to a whole world that's f*cked up to the tenth power. You can't change what happened to Sally, but you can change the world. Am I the only one that sees this?

:soap

This discussion is officially detrimental to my sanity. I'm definitely going to avoid topics like this in the future.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of self-righteous people on here and in the world that make mountains (huge moral arguments) out of molehills (your one argument among many in this thread). It's best to just avoid anyone who doesn't understand your explanations after two posts.
Click to expand...
 
theplaydrive said:
Arcadius said:
There are a lot of self-righteous people on here and in the world that make mountains (huge moral arguments) out of molehills (your one argument among many in this thread). It's best to just avoid anyone who doesn't understand your explanations after two posts.
Click to expand...

Is there anyone here who doesn't understand his explanations??

I doubt it.

Understanding them and accepting them is quite different.
Click to expand...
 
Grant said:
Is there anyone here who doesn't understand his explanations??

I doubt it.

Understanding them and accepting them is quite different.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you guys can't fix your quote code in under 2 posts. Don't you proof read and notice the error? It shows that you don't really care about the discussion so we shouldn't bother putting in any effort either.
 
Grant said:
Is there anyone here who doesn't understand his explanations??

I doubt it.

Understanding them and accepting them is quite different.
Click to expand...

His argument was that rape is less significant than genocide and others large scale displays of violence. That's reality; it's not hard to accept. It may have been a not ideal place to put the statement, but it's a reality nonetheless. All of the other moral projections that others put onto that argument show that people did not understand it because the argument in itself is obviously true: rape has less impact on humanity than other thins.
 
theplaydrive said:
His argument was that rape is less significant than genocide and others large scale displays of violence. That's reality; it's not hard to accept. It may have been a not ideal place to put the statement, but it's a reality nonetheless. All of the other moral projections that others put onto that argument show that people did not understand it because the argument in itself is obviously true: rape has less impact on humanity than other thins.
Click to expand...




It's irrellevant and designed so he could posture, look like he's adding a more thoughtful position, when in fact, it was shallow and lacked any realistic view of this threads topic.
 
theplaydrive said:
His argument was that rape is less significant than genocide and others large scale displays of violence. That's reality; it's not hard to accept. It may have been a not ideal place to put the statement, but it's a reality nonetheless. All of the other moral projections that others put onto that argument show that people did not understand it because the argument in itself is obviously true: rape has less impact on humanity than other thins.
Click to expand...

Yes, we know. We understand. We get it.

We really, really do.
 
Hatuey said:
I'm talking about the American obsession with lost little white girls.
Click to expand...

Fixed it for ya'.

X Factor said:
Oh, I disagree. I think DoL and Don'tWorryBeHappy have come very close to suggesting the same things.
Click to expand...

I cannot state anything definitively about the case since I am not privy to the evidence. Rather, I allowed that an 11 year-old can knowingly consent to sex, despite the law, and that this could have been what happened at first. Were she to lie about that it would not mean she was not raped since I doubt she consented to having sex with or in front of 18 people, again there is no mention of whether all these individuals took part. However, when talking about sentencing it is all about the complete and truthful circumstances. The person who picked her up should receive the harshest sentence, in my opinion, even if his acts were consensual (again despite the legal age of consent).

Gardener said:
Anger and disgust at the gang rape of children is a natural, human reaction for those with a healthy sense of compassion, and with a decent sense of right and wrong.

Those who DON'T react with anger and disgust give every indication of a pathology of some sort -- most likely, thay of a sociopath with an incapability to feel empathy.
Click to expand...

Raping someone is also a natural, human reaction. Does that mean we should consider that acceptable? You can have compassion without anger and disgust. In fact, I think that would the preferable reaction.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
WTF? seriously... WTF? It's not natural, which is why we abhor it.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the 'reaction' part of his comment...I don't really get how rape is a reaction, but it is natural depending on how you define nature.

If natural means 'in and of nature' then it is natural because it occurs in the human part of nature and is done by natural animals - humans. Also, we abhor rape because it hurts people not because it's unnatural.
 
theplaydrive said:
I don't understand the 'reaction' part of his comment...I don't really get how rape is a reaction, but it is natural depending on how you define nature.

If natural means 'in and of nature' then it is natural because it occurs in the human part of nature and is done by natural animals - humans. Also, we abhor rape because it hurts people not because it's unnatural.
Click to expand...



this sort of pseudo-intellectual rationalization bores me. It is not natural, if you want to claim anything that happens is "natural", I have no interest in such a silly discussion.
 
Demon of Light said:
Fixed it for ya'.

You can have compassion without anger and disgust. In fact, I think that would the preferable reaction.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Anger and disgust don't really help anybody.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
this sort of pseudo-intellectual rationalization bores me. It is not natural, if you want to claim anything that happens is "natural", I have no interest in such a silly discussion.
Click to expand...

It's funny that you think providing a definition is 'pseudo-intellectual'. We're on a political discussion board. We talk about ideas.

If nature means 'in and of nature' like societal means 'in and of society', then rape, killing, etc. are all a part of nature. People have many diff. definitions of natural.

Another fact: human beings abhor rape because it hurts people, it has nothing to do with the naturallness of it. We abhor things that hurt us directly or that hurt us when we empathize with the victim. That's why so many people had so many strong reactions to this story - the pain of the little girl, not the 'unnaturalness of the act'.

You just dismiss any argument that doesn't confirm everything you believe about the world.

Also, please tell what I'm rationalizing?
 
ok, everything that happens is natural..... Wow, deep thinking.. It's friday, the argument lacks any intellectual depth, So the Bossman is cutting out early today... Have fun with your "Everything is natural" argument.. .:lol: /facepalm
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
ok, everything that happens is natural..... Wow, deep thinking.. It's friday, the argument lacks any intellectual depth, So the Bossman is cutting out early today... Have fun with your "Everything is natural" argument.. .:lol: /facepalm
Click to expand...

The fact that you think I was attempting to think deeply shows the shallowness of your own intellect. Have a good Friday.
 
I started this thread utterly disgusted by the brutal crime. I am ending this thread utterly disgusted by some of the posters. Those posters, and you know who the hell you are, should be ashamed of yourselves. The fact that you're not is a testament to your narcissim and lack of humanity.
 
Last edited:
DiAnna said:
I started this thread utterly disgusted by the brutal crime. I am ending this thread utterly disgusted by some of the posters. Those posters, and you know who the hell you are, should be ashamed of yourselves. The fact that you're not is a testament to your narcissim and lack of humanity.
Click to expand...

What exactly was 'brutal' about this crime?
 
theplaydrive said:
The fact that you think I was attempting to think deeply shows the shallowness of your own intellect. Have a good Friday.
Click to expand...

Uh, dude, he is making fun of you...
 
Originally Posted by Arcadius
I think punishment and retribution are very juvenile concepts when regarding crime. In this case I think the perpetrators should simply be removed from society, to keep them from harming anyone else. Instead people are just saying they should be murdered or castrated. And my favorite, that they are somehow sub-human. This is one of the reasons I value logic over emotion.
Click to expand...


Yeah, that is called punishment. Thanks for displaying your ability (or lack of) to implement logic... ;)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom