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Thread: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's not about controlling law....emotion can not be removed from law or it will be crueler than any crime.
    I am not sure I agree with that, but I do think that emotion cannot be removed from law since humans create laws and humans are emotional creatures. The two are intertwined, and no matter how logical we want to be, some core of us is emotional. When we hear that 82 year-old granny was robbed and raped and killed by some thugs, we apply our logical side to create a consequence for the thugs, but we are also disgusted by the behaviour, we are angered by their actions, etc. We can apply the law as neutrally as we can, but there is still emotion. Seeing, thinking, smelling, touching... all create emotional responses. We see the bad guys and an emotional response ensues. We hear them defend themselves, or their lawyers, and an emotional response ensues. We think about what has transpired and apply the law and an emotional response ensues...
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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I am not sure I agree with that, but I do think that emotion cannot be removed from law since humans create laws and humans are emotional creatures. The two are intertwined, and no matter how logical we want to be, some core of us is emotional. When we hear that 82 year-old granny was robbed and raped and killed by some thugs, we apply our logical side to create a consequence for the thugs, but we are also disgusted by the behaviour, we are angered by their actions, etc. We can apply the law as neutrally as we can, but there is still emotion. Seeing, thinking, smelling, touching... all create emotional responses. We see the bad guys and an emotional response ensues. We hear them defend themselves, or their lawyers, and an emotional response ensues. We think about what has transpired and apply the law and an emotional response ensues...
    All I'm saying is that our laws do not exist in a vacuum, They can not serve humanity (which is what they are for) if they ignore what it is that makes humans human.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's not about controlling law....emotion can not be removed from law or it will be crueler than any crime.
    If emotion controls law then it will also be crueler. Certainly emotions like compassion for people who have been hurt and people who might be hurt is important, but things like anger and hatred only corrupt the process.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    If emotion controls law then it will also be crueler. Certainly emotions like compassion for people who have been hurt and people who might be hurt is important, but things like anger and hatred only corrupt the process.
    For example, life in prison (safety) vs the death penalty (revenge).

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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    If emotion controls law then it will also be crueler. Certainly emotions like compassion for people who have been hurt and people who might be hurt is important, but things like anger and hatred only corrupt the process.
    That's not what I said. Emotion can not be removed from law.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    That's not what I said. Emotion can not be removed from law.
    It MUST be removed from law if by "law" you mean sentencing, and pretty much, it is.

    With people talking about cutting off people's dicks (what do you do about a woman child molester?) and killing people who touch kids, that's pure emotion speaking, rational thought has left the building. We don't mutilate people for crimes. If the rightwingnutjobs want that so much, then they would be VERY happy in Iran. While people have every right to get emotional over such a thing, that emotion has no place in the courtroom. The law is about punishment for a crime. That punishment does not go up or down with whether people are emotional about it or not. Since emotion can't affect prison sentencing, people have invented a new method of punishing people like that, the sex offender registry. Since there hasn't been a single study that concluded the registry has protected anybody from anything but have been numerous studies citing its extreme cost, lack of accuracy, broad reach, harming the children of sex offenders whos friends ridicule and tease them because their loved one was discovered on the registry, etc etc as inhibiting its original intent to the point where it's almost useless, it can be said that doing away with the registry or keeping it out of the public's eyes can and should be considered. However, people will be punished with retroactive increases in length of registration without due process, which of course is illegal and unconstitutional and is being found so in cases across the country.

    Most people don't give a rats ass about someone growing pot and smoking it themselves, yet get caught doing that, and you go away for a very long time. There is almost neutral emotion to that crime, yet the sentence is off the charts. I know child molesters who did 3 months in jail and 5 years probation, and child porn downloaders who, for a first offense, did 10 YEARS in a federal prison with lifetime probation. There is something wrong with that picture. While I don't like to quantify "badness" of crimes, at some point, a rational person would say that someone who actually touched a child should do far longer than someone who did nothing but click a computer mouse. At least that's how I feel about it. And I don't mean production or distribution, I mean simple possession.
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 03-16-11 at 12:54 AM.

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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    It MUST be removed from law if by "law" you mean sentencing, and pretty much, it is.

    With people talking about cutting off people's dicks (what do you do about a woman child molester?) and killing people who touch kids, that's pure emotion speaking, rational thought has left the building. We don't mutilate people for crimes. If the rightwingnutjobs want that so much, then they would be VERY happy in Iran. While people have every right to get emotional over such a thing, that emotion has no place in the courtroom. The law is about punishment for a crime. That punishment does not go up or down with whether people are emotional about it or not. Since emotion can't affect prison sentencing, people have invented a new method of punishing people like that, the sex offender registry. Since there hasn't been a single study that concluded the registry has protected anybody from anything but have been numerous studies citing its extreme cost, lack of accuracy, broad reach, harming the children of sex offenders whos friends ridicule and tease them because their loved one was discovered on the registry, etc etc as inhibiting its original intent to the point where it's almost useless, it can be said that doing away with the registry or keeping it out of the public's eyes can and should be considered. However, people will be punished with retroactive increases in length of registration without due process, which of course is illegal and unconstitutional and is being found so in cases across the country.
    Oh, good grief, you don't even want them to have to register?
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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    For example, life in prison (safety) vs the death penalty (revenge).
    The death penalty is about revenge as much as life in prison is. They are both equal in there logic or emotional stance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    ith people talking about cutting off people's dicks (what do you do about a woman child molester?) and killing people who touch kids, that's pure emotion speaking, rational thought has left the building.
    Absolutely incorrect. When arguing that a molester should be put to death, I am being completely logic and making an ethical argument, not an emotive one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Eighteen involved in gang rape of 11 year old girl in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The death penalty is about revenge as much as life in prison is. They are both equal in there logic or emotional stance.
    Korimyr put forth one of the most interesting arguments I've ever seen for the death penalty, and it was based on compassion for the criminal.

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