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Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

Objective Voice said:
As for the steps Wisconsin has taken to date to reduce its financial woes, I really don't know what they did beforehand. All I know is what's being reported in the national media, towit, their Governor has never given a reason that justifies going after unions and public workers. I'd like to think he took all the right steps in this matter, but based on that bogus phone call he got caught up in...let's just say he'll have to answer to his constituences and leave it at that.
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"....going after..."

The only ones who think the governor is "going after" anyone are those people who either belong to unions or are receiving public pensions...and that's all-told less than 12% of workers in the USA.

As to your "....leave it at that....," I agree. So where are the Democrats? Oh, wait, they're busy in Grayslake, Illinois subverting democracy.
 
MaggieD said:
"....going after..."

The only ones who think the governor is "going after" anyone are those people who either belong to unions or are receiving public pensions...and that's all-told less than 12% of workers in the USA.

As to your "....leave it at that....," I agree. So where are the Democrats? Oh, wait, they're busy in Grayslake, Illinois subverting democracy.
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that's patently untrue. i neither belong to a union OR receive a public pension, and i KNOW the governor is going after unions. if not, he would have acceptd all the monetary concessions the union made. instead, "this is his moment"......the man is ego driven and a MAJORITY of people across WI disagree with him.
 
The Democrats are laughable. They were willing to watch others get pink slips and now regardless what they say there are folding because because it't about to cost them cash.

What happened to the BS? Gone with the wind. Or is it hot are.
 
liblady said:

that's patently untrue. i neither belong to a union OR receive a public pension, and i KNOW the governor is going after unions. if not, he would have acceptd all the monetary concessions the union made. instead, "this is his moment"......the man is ego driven and a MAJORITY of people across WI disagree with him.
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BS....The people of WI voted him in ON THAT PLATFORM! I could care less if you are a union member or not, in the end your goals are the same. Take my money that I earned, and give it to someone that is not willing to put forth the effort to earn it. I will fight that at every turn.


j-mac
 
liblady said:

that's patently untrue. i neither belong to a union OR receive a public pension, and i KNOW the governor is going after unions. if not, he would have acceptd all the monetary concessions the union made. instead, "this is his moment"......the man is ego driven and a MAJORITY of people across WI disagree with him.
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Well, everyone makes mistakes.

If a majority of people across Wisconsin disagree with him, they can recall him. He'll be a one-term-less-than-wonder. But in the meantime, the democratic process is being subverted by whiney crybabies who can't stand that they lost their majority. As President Obama said, "Elections have consequences." (I guess you think he meant, "....unless Republicans win.")

And instead of being quick to point out that you're an exception, and reminding me I should never speak in absolutes, how about addressing the real issue: What is wrong with giving taxpayers a voice in how their tax dollars are being spent?
 
j-mac said:
BS....The people of WI voted him in ON THAT PLATFORM! I could care less if you are a union member or not, in the end your goals are the same. Take my money that I earned, and give it to someone that is not willing to put forth the effort to earn it. I will fight that at every turn.


j-mac
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maggie said that the only people who thought walker was out to get the unions were union employees or retired employees. that's NOT TRUE, plain and simple. and i just love that you think teachers aren't willing to earn the salaries. what about cops and firemen? what about postal workers? who should decide their salaries? you?

btw......where can i find that walker campaigned on taking away collective bargaining from teachers? i can't find that ANYWHERE.
 
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theplaydrive said:
It's pretty clear that the bill was an unnecessary solution considering that union members agreed to the other terms so long as their collective bargaining wasn't taken away.
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Where is this almighty signed declaration from all the union members in Wisconsin?

From my perspective, Walker destroyed his career. Not only did the police and fireman who endorsed him and were exempt from his scheme turn on him, he was also caught in an embarrassing phone call where everybody's suspicions were confirmed. Good riddance. Americans fought for unions and now we have to fight to maintain them.
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Walker for President!

In a way, it's good that this became such a huge issue, maybe in 2012, Democrats won't stay home from the polls to retaliate against Obama and those who belong to unions will realize that Republican Party is not on their side.
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Number of elections in US History where Union Slobs stayed home rather than vote themselves a payraise

------Zero-------
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Badmutha said:
Where is this almighty signed declaration from all the union members in Wisconsin?



Walker for President!



Number of elections in US History where Union Slobs stayed home rather than vote themselves a payraise

------Zero-------
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It's been reported many times that unions agreed to his conditions in exchange for keeping their bargaining rights. They wanted to 'sign an almighty declaration', but Walker rejected their offer because his aims are about more than money. You need to pay attention to the news.
 
theplaydrive said:
It's been reported many times that unions agreed to his conditions in exchange for keeping their bargaining rights. They wanted to 'sign an almighty declaration', but Walker rejected their offer because his aims are about more than money. You need to pay attention to the news.
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True, the aims are not to be held hostage by inept unions.
 
theplaydrive said:
It's been reported many times that unions agreed to his conditions in exchange for keeping their bargaining rights. They wanted to 'sign an almighty declaration', but Walker rejected their offer because his aims are about more than money. You need to pay attention to the news.
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So what! It's been reported many times....Gafaw! Don't make me choke on my coffee. Reported by whom? Other liberals in the news? Obama press bots? Big deal!

j-mac
 
theplaydrive said:
It's been reported many times
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.....just because it was reported doesnt make it fact.

that unions agreed to his conditions in exchange for keeping their bargaining rights. They wanted to 'sign an almighty declaration', but Walker rejected their offer because his aims are about more than money. You need to pay attention to the news.
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They dont need Walker to sign a declaration of intent.

I think this boils down to the State run liberal media and a few Union slob bosses presumably speaking for every and any Public Sector Union in Wisconsin without any idea of whether they all have collectively agreed to the concessions or not.

And knowing greedy Democrat union slobs........Im betting the ones that agree to the concessions are few and far between.....
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liblady said:
can you possibly prove that unions are inept, whatever that means?
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SPRINGFIELD -- Not only is it exceedingly rare to fire a tenured teacher in Illinois, but it also is extraordinarily expensive.
In fact, Illinois school districts that have hired outside lawyers in these cases have spent an average of more than $219,000 in legal fees during the last five years.
In a follow-up to its award-winning investigation of teacher tenure in Illinois, Small Newspaper Group took an in-depth look at costs associated with teacher dismissals.
In the original series, which was published in December, the newspapers said school districts reasonably could expect to spend at least $100,000 to try to fire a tenured teacher.
That figure, which was based on attorney estimates, was immediately called into question by one the state's two major teacher unions, the Illinois Federation of Teachers, which contends such cases usually cost school districts less than $50,000.
To settle the question, Small Newspaper Group filed Freedom of Information Act requests for every attorney bill paid by a school district in a tenured teacher dismissal case during the last five years.
Those bills indicate schools districts have spent an average of $219,504.21 in legal fees for dismissal cases and related litigation from the beginning of 2001 until the end of 2005.

The Hidden Cost of Tenure
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$200K to get rid of bad teachers.....That is absolutely maddening. This is what I call inept.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
So what! It's been reported many times....Gafaw! Don't make me choke on my coffee. Reported by whom? Other liberals in the news? Obama press bots? Big deal!

j-mac
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Actually, Governor Walker himself has talked about the offer numerous times...
 
theplaydrive said:
It's been reported many times that unions agreed to his conditions in exchange for keeping their bargaining rights. They wanted to 'sign an almighty declaration', but Walker rejected their offer because his aims are about more than money. You need to pay attention to the news.
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You need to not quite believe everything you read and hear. Please supply a link to this offer of an "almighty declaration." :rofl

His aim is definitely about more than money. It's about changing the legislation that allows teachers to bargain unrestricted for their salaries and giving the power back to the taxpayers of the state of Wisconsin.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Inept - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


Tenure vs. merit=Inept
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I like how you've chosen to ignore the fact that evaluating teachers on merit is ineffective in a country where students are being tested with tests created by illiterate people and being taught based on ineffective policies.

It makes no sense to evaluate teachers based SOLELY on student performance when the education system doesn't have adequate means of teaching them how to perform.

Just like pro-life people should layout ways to deal with abandoned children, those who emphasize merit pay need to come up better ways to teach students and help them to perform well or in the end we'll have a country of stupid students and no teachers.
 
j-mac said:
So what! It's been reported many times....Gafaw! Don't make me choke on my coffee. Reported by whom? Other liberals in the news? Obama press bots? Big deal!

j-mac
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you seriously should pay attention.
 
theplaydrive said:
Actually, Governor Walker himself has talked about the offer numerous times...
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Please link to that then....If this is so, then I am sure it was in the context of getting the demo's back in state where they could be compelled to vote.


j-mac
 
Badmutha said:
.....just because it was reported doesnt make it fact.



They dont need Walker to sign a declaration of intent.

I think this boils down to the State run liberal media and a few Union slob bosses presumably speaking for every and any Public Sector Union in Wisconsin without any idea of whether they all have collectively agreed to the concessions or not.

And knowing greedy Democrat union slobs........Im betting the ones that agree to the concessions are few and far between.....
.
.
.
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Walker himself has talked about.
 
theplaydrive said:
I like how you've chosen to ignore the fact that evaluating teachers on merit is ineffective in a country where students are being tested with tests created by illiterate people and being taught based on ineffective policies.

It makes no sense to evaluate teachers based SOLELY on student performance when the education system doesn't have adequate means of teaching them how to perform.
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Please quote me where I stated "soley".... strawman not needed. You pointed out a test in chicago, and you apply it to the nation. I don't think that fits.

Just like pro-life people should layout ways to deal with abandoned children, those who emphasize merit pay need to come up better ways to teach students and help them to perform well or in the end we'll have a country of stupid students and no teachers.
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One way we can do this, (your non-sequitor aside), would be to base teachers pay and jobs on thier performance, not how many years they put in. :prof
 
j-mac said:
Please link to that then....If this is so, then I am sure it was in the context of getting the demo's back in state where they could be compelled to vote.


j-mac
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Earlier Friday, Marty Beil, head of the Wisconsin State Employees Union, said his members would agree to pay more of their pension contributions and health insurance benefits as Walker is demanding. But Beil said his union would never agree to give up decades-old bargaining rights.

Beil's union is part of AFSCME, the largest state and local employee union in Wisconsin, which represents 68,000 workers for the state, Milwaukee, Milwaukee County and other municipalities. An AFSCME spokesman said Beil was speaking for all the group's union locals in the state.

"We are prepared to implement the financial concessions proposed to help bring our state's budget into balance, but we will not be denied our God-given right to join a real union . . .  we will not - I repeat we will not - be denied our rights to collectively bargain," Beil said in a statement.

Mary Bell, the president of the Wisconsin Education Association Council, the state's largest teachers union, said her group also would make the financial concessions to keep its bargaining rights.

"This is not about money," Bell said in a phone conference. "We understand the need to sacrifice."

No compromise seen

Walker flatly rejected the offer. He said local governments and schools will need that flexibility with their employees to cope with cuts in their state aid that he wants to make to help balance the state budget.

"It doesn't work," Walker said of the offer in an interview. "My goal all along has been to give all these folks - I asked for it in the past - the tools to control their own budgets . . .  I know as a (former) local official, collective bargaining time and time again was the thing that stood in the way of local governments and school districts being able to manage their budgets."
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Assembly
 
theplaydrive said:
It's been reported many times that unions agreed to his conditions in exchange for keeping their bargaining rights. They wanted to 'sign an almighty declaration', but Walker rejected their offer because his aims are about more than money. You need to pay attention to the news.
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What news? The news that has sided with the unions at every turn? No bias there.:roll:
 
j-mac said:
$200K to get rid of bad teachers.....That is absolutely maddening. This is what I call inept.


j-mac
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If that is maddening, this ought to cause an aneurysm...New York Teachers Paid To Do Nothing: 700 Of Them

Because their union contract makes it extremely difficult to fire them, the teachers have been banished by the school system to its "rubber rooms" _ off-campus office space where they wait months, even years, for their disciplinary hearings.

The 700 or so teachers can practice yoga, work on their novels, paint portraits of their colleagues _ pretty much anything but school work. They have summer vacation just like their classroom colleagues and enjoy weekends and holidays through the school year.

"You just basically sit there for eight hours," said Orlando Ramos, who spent seven months in a rubber room, officially known as a temporary reassignment center, in 2004-05. "I saw several near-fights. `This is my seat.' `I've been sitting here for six months.' That sort of thing."


Teachers Not Teaching - L.A. Unified pays teachers not to teach - Los Angeles Times

L.A. Unified pays teachers not to teach: FAILURE GETS A PASS
About 160 instructors and others get salaries for doing nothing while their job fitness is reviewed. They collect roughly $10 million a year, even as layoffs are considered because of a budget gap. For seven years, the Los Angeles Unified School District has paid Matthew Kim a teaching salary of up to $68,000 per year, plus benefits.

His job is to do nothing.

Every school day, Kim's shift begins at 7:50 a.m., with 30 minutes for lunch, and ends when the bell at his old campus rings at 3:20 p.m. He is to take off all breaks, school vacations and holidays, per a district agreement with the teacher's union. At no time is he to be given any work by the district or show up at school.

He has never missed a paycheck.

In the jargon of the school district, Kim is being "housed" while his fitness to teach is under review. A special education teacher, he was removed from Grant High School in Van Nuys and assigned to a district office in 2002 after the school board voted to fire him for allegedly harassing teenage students and colleagues. In the meantime, the district has spent more than $2 million on him in salary and legal costs.

Last week, Kim was ordered to continue this daily routine at home. District officials said the offices for "housed" employees were becoming too crowded. About 160 teachers and other staff sit idly in buildings scattered around the sprawling district, waiting for allegations of misconduct to be resolved.
 
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