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Thread: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

  1. #81
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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I mentioned the Chicago test because it's something more obvious to me since I know someone who deals with it. But if have been paying attention to debates about education, you would know that their are problems across the country with how students are being taught and tested...which is why education is a hot topic.

    Therefore, if the policies of education aren't working in many schools, it doesn't make sense to base teacher's pay or job on the work of students who are taking ineffective tests and it doesn't make sense to evaluate them on how they implement ineffective policies that they are required to work under.

    For your further education, here's a bestselling book by Diane Ravitch, she was appointed to public office by George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/16/bo...w/Wolfe-t.html



    Do I think that these tests can be improved? sure. Do I think that should be an excuse not to fire a deadbeat teacher because of tenure, while an up and coming teacher gets fired because of last in first out? no way.


    See you built up this either or argument that has little to do with reality of the situation, just look at some of the links some of us have provided. 200k for litigation, 700 teachers to be paid to do nothing?


    Standardized tests have nothing to do with these glaring problems with teacher unions.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    it doesn't make sense to base teacher's pay or job on the work of students who are taking ineffective tests and it doesn't make sense to evaluate them on how they implement ineffective policies that they are required to work under.

    OMFreakinG! Is there anything teachers are responsible for in the field of education? Poor babies....Don't evaluate them on job performance, because it isn't fair with the policies, don't evaluate them on the drop out rate, or the failing levels of education shown in students scores, because that just isn't fair....I mean why should they even have to show up?


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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ah, I see...Nothing new....except exposing yet another dishonest player in this debate. Look, your article talks about how a couple of unions offered Walker concessions on in return for leaving CB out of it. Walker rejected that as he should....I knew you weren't being honest when you said Walker talked about it.....lol....Try again.

    j-mac
    I tuned out of this whole Wisconsin debacle after the first few days. People are acting like it is some big 'gotcha' moment when Gov Walker announced his intent to seriously reduce the number of collective bargaining agencies on the state rosters. Umm...dur...thats pretty much what he said from the get go. It also became obvious right away when the unions so willingly threw the teachers under the bus by accepting the requirements for increase in their contributions to their health care and retirement that all the unions cared about was increasing the size of their union numbers. Unions care about unions...not their people. People are a bargaining chip.

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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Gein View Post
    Don't shoot the messenger, Lib. Your cause is yesterday's news, and my contribution to your thread of fantasy is not only pertinent, but far more measured and respectful than you thugs deserve.

    A little dose of reality to put a smile on your smug mug.
    Surely you can make your point without attempting to pick a fight with people, can't you?
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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post

    Assembly
    Mary Bell, the president of the Wisconsin Education Association Council, the state's largest teachers union, said her group also would make the financial concessions to keep its bargaining rights.
    "This is not about money," Bell said in a phone conference. "We understand the need to sacrifice."
    Walker flatly rejected the offer. He said local governments and schools will need that flexibility with their employees to cope with cuts in their state aid that he wants to make to help balance the state budget.
    "It doesn't work," Walker said of the offer in an interview. "My goal all along has been to give all these folks - I asked for it in the past - the tools to control their own budgets . . .  I know as a (former) local official, collective bargaining time and time again was the thing that stood in the way of local governments and school districts being able to manage their budgets."Walker pointed out that in December the state unions sought - unsuccessfully - to have Democrats then controlling the Legislature pass labor contracts that would have run through June. The no-pay-raise contracts would have included modest benefits concessions but would have also blocked for several months Walker's ability to reach the deeper cuts in benefits that he is seeking."Let's not kid ourselves. The reality is, it's about the money," Walker said
    .........................................
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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I tuned out of this whole Wisconsin debacle after the first few days. People are acting like it is some big 'gotcha' moment when Gov Walker announced his intent to seriously reduce the number of collective bargaining agencies on the state rosters. Umm...dur...thats pretty much what he said from the get go. It also became obvious right away when the unions so willingly threw the teachers under the bus by accepting the requirements for increase in their contributions to their health care and retirement that all the unions cared about was increasing the size of their union numbers. Unions care about unions...not their people. People are a bargaining chip.

    Yeah, that's right....I wish I could find the youtube on that Union boss that was talking to union members about education, saying that 'it wasn't about the kids....' Classic.


    j-mac
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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    OMFreakinG! Is there anything teachers are responsible for in the field of education? Poor babies....Don't evaluate them on job performance, because it isn't fair with the policies, don't evaluate them on the drop out rate, or the failing levels of education shown in students scores, because that just isn't fair....I mean why should they even have to show up?


    j-mac
    so, you believe an inner city school teacher in say, detroit, should be evaluated using the same statistics as a teacher in grosse point?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Assembly


    .........................................
    I read the article. I know what he says. We disagree. And if it was about the money, none of unions would have made concessions.

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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    so, you believe an inner city school teacher in say, detroit, should be evaluated using the same statistics as a teacher in grosse point?
    Better than comparing Grosse Point with Hamtramck. Damn, I just had to get the Pollock joke in there. But I'd better watch out. If Hamtramck compares too well with Grosse Point, someone might put a hit out on me.
    Last edited by danarhea; 03-07-11 at 04:16 PM.
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  10. #90
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    Re: Wisconsin's Democrats to End Union Standoff

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    so, you believe an inner city school teacher in say, detroit, should be evaluated using the same statistics as a teacher in grosse point?

    I know this. Education in this country has suffered greatly from the point which I graduated, to now, and the kids show it. We have a lost generation due to exactly this type of childish non responsibility born from educrats that refuse to see themselves as any part of the problem.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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