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Thread: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

  1. #31
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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    If we use that logic, we would've invaded Saudia Arabia and Iran. Probably Turkey too since they helped protect and hide Yasin al Qadi, one of al-Qaeda's and Osama bin Laden's chief financiers.

    CNN.com - World shock over U.S. attacks - September 11, 2001

    In Islamabad, Pakistan, Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, said: "We want to tell the American children that Afghanistan feels your pain and we hope that the courts find justice."

    In Kabul, Afghanistan, Wakeel Ahmed Mutawakel, the foreign minister of Afghanistan's ruling Taliban government, told the Arab television network Al Jazeera, "We denounce this terrorist attack, whoever is behind it."
    The logic stated was that the Bin laden led AlQaida terrorist organization was responsible for the attack on 9-11, and that the Taliban led government of Aghanistan was aiding and abetting the terrorist organization. Dont like that logic...take it up with all the Liberals that support the war against Afghanistan.

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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Yes, it's in several newspapers. They responded to mortar fire without making sure where exactly it was coming from and who they were targeting.
    If you're getting the 'facts' from newspapers then you don't know exactly what happened. According to what I've read they were responding to rocket attacks, not mortar fire. How exactly this tradegy happed has yet to be determined. I don't believe much of what is printed in newspapers or reported on these days when it comes to Afghanistan.

    The US and NATO are not sprinkling bombs all over Afghanistan with no reguard to civilians.


    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Great deflection. Fallacious reasoning does not bode well here.
    No deflection. It puts civilian deaths in Afghanistan into perspective. There is serious doubt that the "65 civilians" claimed killed by Afghan's were in fact civilians and not jihadis.

    Last week, in a different part of Kunar province, residents and the Afghan government claimed that a coalition operation had left 65 civilians dead. The coalition says that only insurgents were killed in that incident.
    Read more: U.S.-led coalition admits it killed 9 Afghan boys in error - World Wires - MiamiHerald.com



    Any outrage by Afghan's or Karzai over this incident? Large protests perhaps? No!?! I didn't think so. This was 3 days ago.

    Afghan bomb kills 12 civilians
    A Taliban-style Roadside Bomb tore through a car in eastern Afghanistan's Paktika province on Sunday, killing 12 civilians and wounding five others, the provincial administration said.

    The dead included five Children, two women and five men.

    http://politifi.com/news/Afghan-bomb...s-1698143.html
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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Yet we invaded two sovereign nations in response to the attacks. It doesn't take a genius to realize how moronic that is.
    This is just flat wrong.

    Afghanistan was not a "sovereign nation" in 2001 and hadn't been for some years.

    We did not liberate Iraq because of 9/11.

    Where do you get this stuff from? Newspapers?
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    This information was issued jointly by the UN and the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commissions.

    The U.N. mission in Afghanistan put the number of civilians killed in 2010 at 2,777, a 15% increase over the previous year. About three-quarters of those deaths were caused by insurgents, the report said.

    Most of the civilian casualties were capriciously random in nature, with hundreds of people dying in suicide attacks or roadside bombings. But the report also noted an ominous trend: a doubling of assassinations of government officials, tribal elders and similarly prominent figures. These targeted killings are viewed as an unambiguous warning by insurgents against cooperating with the administration of President Hamid Karzai or with the Western military force.

    As it did in the previous year, the report charted a drop in the proportion of deaths caused by the Western military, this time of 26%.

    Afghan civilian deaths: 2010 deadliest year for Afghan civilians - latimes.com
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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    If you're getting the 'facts' from newspapers then you don't know exactly what happened. According to what I've read they were responding to rocket attacks, not mortar fire. How exactly this tradegy happed has yet to be determined. I don't believe much of what is printed in newspapers or reported on these days when it comes to Afghanistan.
    It's called reporting, and that's what you go by with current events. If you have a problem with credibility, this has been on Associated Press and Reuters. I know what happened based on the reporting of the situation. You are ignorant of the situation because you choose to ignore the reporting of a current event and instead formulate your own opinion on what happens. Which do you think is more accurate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    The US and NATO are not sprinkling bombs all over Afghanistan with no reguard to civilians.
    I never said they were? You have A LOT to learn if this is how you intend on carrying a civil debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    No deflection. It puts civilian deaths in Afghanistan into perspective. There is serious doubt that the "65 civilians" claimed killed by Afghan's were in fact civilians and not jihadis.
    It is a deflection and a false analogy, which makes it an informal fallacy -- an argument whose premise is entirely faulty. Comparing civilian deaths between a total war situation and multiple countries with a counter insurgency that uses assymetric warfare is completely asinine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Last week, in a different part of Kunar province, residents and the Afghan government claimed that a coalition operation had left 65 civilians dead. The coalition says that only insurgents were killed in that incident.
    Read more: U.S.-led coalition admits it killed 9 Afghan boys in error - World Wires - MiamiHerald.com
    Wait, I thought you don't trust news reports on events that are currently happening?

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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    This is just flat wrong.

    Afghanistan was not a "sovereign nation" in 2001 and hadn't been for some years.
    Yes, it was. Civil war does not eliminate a nation's sovereignty by any means.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    We did not liberate Iraq because of 9/11.

    Where do you get this stuff from? Newspapers?
    LOL at the use of the term liberate. We supported their dictator and armed him when it suited us. Then we deposed of him under false pretenses and when it suited our interests in the region. We are nothing short of hypocrites.

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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The logic stated was that the Bin laden led AlQaida terrorist organization was responsible for the attack on 9-11, and that the Taliban led government of Aghanistan was aiding and abetting the terrorist organization. Dont like that logic...take it up with all the Liberals that support the war against Afghanistan.
    And according to OUR GOVERNMENT, the Taliban were not aiding the Al-Qaeda organization at all. Providing a safe haven is not a violation of any international treaty. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Lebanon, and the Palestinan Authority have all done it multiple times and yet we have not invaded any of them. Instead, we have given them billions of dollars with a giant percentage being smuggled to insurgents.

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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    It's called reporting, and that's what you go by with current events.
    Except when those "reporting" the 'news' have no more idea what actually happened than you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    I never said they were?
    without making sure where exactly it was coming from and who they were targeting

    Sure you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    It is a deflection and a false analogy, which makes it an informal fallacy -- an argument whose premise is entirely faulty. Comparing civilian deaths between a total war situation and multiple countries with a counter insurgency that uses assymetric warfare is completely asinine.
    We are talking about civilian casualties as a result of liberating a nation by force. It's absolutely relevant.

    If you don't like history poking it's nose around the corner to place things into perspective then too bad.


    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Wait, I thought you don't trust news reports on events that are currently happening?
    You can cancel the wait and take a breath.

    The article was pointing out that NATO disputes the claim by Afghan's that 65 'civilians' had been killed in Kunar province.

    The US military and NATO are the only credible sources of information in Afghanistan.

    Nice try.
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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Yes, it was. Civil war does not eliminate a nation's sovereignty by any means.
    Complete and total BS. There was no sovereign government in Afghanistan in 2001 and there hadn't been for some years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    LOL at the use of the term liberate. We supported their dictator and armed him when it suited us. Then we deposed of him under false pretenses and when it suited our interests in the region. We are nothing short of hypocrites.
    Then you need to brush up on the meaning of liberation.

    We armed Saddam? Deposed under false pretenses?

    We did not arm Saddam and as far as WMD is concerned, the ISG is a treasure trove of information regarding Saddam's WMD programs.

    Again, nice try.

    BTW, where have you been for the last few decades? A lot has happened and you seem to be completely unaware of it.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Afghan President Rejects U.S. Apology Over Killings

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Providing a safe haven is not a violation of any international treaty. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Lebanon, and the Palestinan Authority have all done it multiple times and yet we have not invaded any of them.
    Two quick things:

    1. Harboring terrorist organizations is, in fact, a violation of international law, at least as set forth in UN Security Council Resolutions. For example, UNSC Res. 1373, which followed the 2001 terrorist attacks declared, among other things, "all States shall... Deny safe haven to those who finance, plan, support, or commit terrorist acts, or provide safe havens" and "Prevent those who finance, plan, facilitate or commit terrorist acts from using their respective territories for those purposes against other States or their citizens..."

    2. At least as important as the first point, nations will act when their critical interests are threatened or attacked. The Taliban leadership was given an opportunity to hand over Osama Bin Laden and other Al Qaeda leaders. The Taliban refused. Given that Al Qaeda launched the terrorist attacks against U.S. citizens on U.S. soil, there is no doubt whatsoever about the magnitude of the national interest involved.

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