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Thread: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's not the US's role to help out in the revolutions of other countries. It never has been.
    on the contrary; since our founding we have done so, the Founders were very open to the idea of aiding the American ideal spread, and were hardly above a little interference to spread the ideology of the "American Empire". i would urge you to read "Dangerous Nation" on precisely this topic.

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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Or not arming people like Gadafi in the first place.
    I hope that you're not suggesting that the United States armed Qadaffi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's not the US's role to help out in the revolutions of other countries. It never has been.
    Sometimes, it comes to a point where it's not just about helping a revolution in another country. Just think how diffrently the past decade may have gone had we not ****ed anti-Saddam forces in the 90's, or had we not turned our back on the anti-government folks in Iran in '09.

    I don't agree that we should land the first American unit in Libya, unless they're going into a free fire zone and are locked, cocked and ready to rock, but it would be a bad idea to turn our back on the rebels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    What we should KNOW by this point is that intervention or non-intervention...there are nothing but no win scenarios here. If we get involved, radical Muslims and heck...lots of folks in Europe as well...will all scream about our evil intentions of stirring this all up as a plot to take their oil. If Obama acts, he gets nailed. If he doesnt act, he gets nailed. Obama is wearing Bush's boots right now...I wonder how comfortable he is in them.

    I HOPE there are things going on with other nations. I HOPE our government is communicating with other nations on solutions. I dont think we should have intervened but I do think our message should have been clear...whatever that message is. Personally...I would like to see Obama go before the world, encourage the UN, NATO, and the AL to take clear and decisive action. I would also like to see him look right into the camera and promise to give them the same kind of support they have given the US.
    That's why I would like to let things fall apart and let people see just how important and positive American intervention has been over the last 70 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    FWIW, there may be an old-fashioned siege underway at Zawiya. From the BBC:

    1607: A doctor in Zawiya has told Sky News the city is being starved into submission, with supplies of food, fuel and medicine cut off.

    In the larger scheme of things, the fighting is being concentrated in strategically important areas (mainly where large oil refineries are located). The Gadhafi forces lack the power to regain control of the entire country. They are focusing their efforts on a handful of strategic sites.

    IMO, in those areas that the anti-Gadhafi forces cannot control, they should destroy the oil refineries. In doing so, they would deprive the Gadhafi military forces of fuel and, over time, fuel shortages could thwart their capacity to bring tanks and fighter jets into battle. At that point, the balance of power could shift decisively in favor of the anti-Gadhafi forces.
    Until Iran sends a couple of super tankers full of fuel to a government controlled port
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no. tempting as it is, a fit of pique is no reason to turn a blind eye to the slaughter of innocents.
    I don't think we have much to worry about. Obama isn't going to do anymore than air-drop MRE's and bandaids. Then, we'll have to hear the anti-American crowd go on-n-on about we're not doing anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Let Africa deal with it. This is not our responsibility.
    Last edited by Laila; 03-05-11 at 05:01 PM.


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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    on the contrary; since our founding we have done so, the Founders were very open to the idea of aiding the American ideal spread, and were hardly above a little interference to spread the ideology of the "American Empire". i would urge you to read "Dangerous Nation" on precisely this topic.
    ON THE CONTRARY. Here is what the Founding fathers had to say on foreign wars:

    United States non-interventionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    President Thomas Jefferson extended Washington's ideas in his March 4, 1801 inaugural address: "peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." Jefferson's phrase "entangling alliances" is, incidentally, sometimes incorrectly attributed to Washington.[1]

    In 1823, President James Monroe articulated what would come to be known as the Monroe Doctrine, which some have interpreted as non-interventionist in intent: "In the wars of the European powers, in matters relating to themselves, we have never taken part, nor does it comport with our policy, so to do. It is only when our rights are invaded, or seriously menaced that we resent injuries, or make preparations for our defense."

    The United States' policy of non-intervention was maintained throughout most of the 19th century. The first significant foreign intervention by the US was the Spanish-American War, which saw the US occupy and control the Philippines.
    You're welcome to retract your claim whenever you want. The founders were military isolationists. They didn't believe in sending in troops to another country unless our own system of governance was in jeopardy. It was only in the late 19th century that America became open to the idea of 'spreading our ideals'. Read about, progressivism played a huge role in this.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 03-05-11 at 05:13 PM.
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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They don't want us to intervene. I say we don't intervene.

    This is exactly what everyone around the world has been cryin' about for the past 30+ years; I say we give them exactly what they want.
    Don't get involved. I agree.
    US will be blamed if anything gets wrong. Let the world show US how they expect it to act.

    Why should Libya register the world's attention when Darfur did not? What makes Libya so damn special? Just thinking about it makes me furious. Tens of thousands died in Darfur. Thousands and the UN most certainly did not act in the same speed.

    Leave Libya alone. Let them deal with it and their own Government.
    And if the people die. Well ... every revolution in history has shed blood. This will be no different.
    Last edited by Laila; 03-05-11 at 05:36 PM.


  10. #30
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    Re: Qaddaffi launches counterattack: "massacre" claimed by witnesses

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    ON THE CONTRARY. Here is what the Founding fathers had to say on foreign wars:

    United States non-interventionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    You're welcome to retract your claim whenever you want. The founders were military isolationists. They didn't believe in sending in troops to another country unless our own system of governance was in jeopardy. It was only in the late 19th century that America became open to the idea of 'spreading our ideals'. Read about, progressivism played a huge role in this.
    There is political rhetoric, and then there is also geopolitical realities. We intervened quite often in before the 20th century. There was not dramatically clear isolationist moment vs interventionist moment. During one part of our life we were more apt to be one or the other or see ourselves as one or the other, but we quite frequently involved ourselves in the spheres of others.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 03-05-11 at 05:53 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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