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Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

MaggieD said:
He is trying to get control of an out-of-control system. He wants taxpayers to vote on any increase teachers get that's over and above the CPI. That's what this is about. The unions don't want the taxpayers to have a voice. What????

Tell me. What is the problem with taxpayers having a voice in how their money's being spent?
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well..... you know.... it's all...... "transparent-y" and stuff.....


John 3:19: ...but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil...
 
cpwill said:
well let's hope so.

because the problem is public unions.
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if he is really interested in balancing his budget, he will drop the union busting shenanigans and sit down and hammer out a deal....unions are not the problem here, but a convenient scapegoat for a republican governor looking to make a name for himself, and to reward his cronies/donors.
 
randel said:
if he is really interested in balancing his budget, he will drop the union busting shenanigans and sit down and hammer out a deal....unions are not the problem here, but a convenient scapegoat for a republican governor looking to make a name for himself, and to reward his cronies/donors.
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That type of BS argument could be used both ways there Randy....If demo's were serious about turning America back into a prosperous country, they would drop the tax and spend, Socialist shenanigans and realize that Unions in this country have been rejected by the people and get to the business of not bankrupting their surroundings.


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
That type of BS argument could be used both ways there Randy....If demo's were serious about turning America back into a prosperous country, they would drop the tax and spend, Socialist shenanigans and realize that Unions in this country have been rejected by the people and get to the business of not bankrupting their surroundings.


j-mac
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bs argument? hardly....he wants concessions, all he has to do is SIT DOWN AT THE DAMN TABLE....THE UNIONS HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT THEY WILL WORK WITH HIM......but no, he is tryiing to push forward full throttle with his anti union agenda, rewarding big business while screwing over joe and jane sixpack....sorry, if you are trying to balance a budget, then there should be no tax breaks...one group(his cronies/donors) shouldnt be rewarded with tax breaks while he seeks to fund those tax breaks on the backs of the unions. 'oh were broke!!! damn unions are driving the state into the poorhouse!! oh the humanity!! by the way, we are going to increase what you pay for benefits/insurance, and take away your rights in the name of balancing the budget...oh, before i forget my friends, here ya go guys, have some tax breaks!!...yeah, makes alot of sense...:roll:
 
randel said:
bs argument? hardly....he wants concessions, all he has to do is SIT DOWN AT THE DAMN TABLE....THE UNIONS HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT THEY WILL WORK WITH HIM......but no, he is tryiing to push forward full throttle with his anti union agenda, rewarding big business while screwing over joe and jane sixpack....sorry, if you are trying to balance a budget, then there should be no tax breaks...one group(his cronies/donors) shouldnt be rewarded with tax breaks while he seeks to fund those tax breaks on the backs of the unions. 'oh were broke!!! damn unions are driving the state into the poorhouse!! oh the humanity!! by the way, we are going to increase what you pay for benefits/insurance, and take away your rights in the name of balancing the budget...oh, before i forget my friends, here ya go guys, have some tax breaks!!...yeah, makes alot of sense...:roll:
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See, this is why liberal union lackeys will never get it. I am "Joe Sixpack" Randel, and I loath the unions and what they do to not only our government by subverting the system corruptly, but in what they do to the businesses that provide the living I and others strive to give our families. They systematically break the back of whom ever they are organizing against through wanting ever more than the market will bear. Then when called on it, they, you, use disingenuous language pre supposing that you speak for me, and others that aren't union supporters as if you had more than a mere 12% in union membership.

Tax breaks entice, and draw business to communities, and keep the cost of goods and services low so that people can afford them, and jobs are created. But I wouldn't expect the selfish, corrupt, childish liberal union member to understand anything that wasn't precluded with me, me, me.....


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
See, this is why liberal union lackeys will never get it. I am "Joe Sixpack" Randel, and I loath the unions and what they do to not only our government by subverting the system corruptly, but in what they do to the businesses that provide the living I and others strive to give our families. They systematically break the back of whom ever they are organizing against through wanting ever more than the market will bear. Then when called on it, they, you, use disingenuous language pre supposing that you speak for me, and others that aren't union supporters as if you had more than a mere 12% in union membership.

Tax breaks entice, and draw business to communities, and keep the cost of goods and services low so that people can afford them, and jobs are created. But I wouldn't expect the selfish, corrupt, childish liberal union member to understand anything that wasn't precluded with me, me, me.....


j-mac
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please explain how they subvert the system? also, please explain how giving tax breaks keeps prices low...also j, you support big business, and that is fine, i've no problem with that, but answer me this...the execs of these companies all have, now say it with me now, CONTRACTS, and these CONTRACTS spell out exactly how much pay, and what benefits they can expect from their employer...these execs negoitate these CONTRACTS with these employers...and these businesses have CONTRACTS with other businesses stating how much they will purchase/ or produce of a product over a set amount of time, and what they will pay for goods/services.... everyone wants to know exactly what they can expect...so.....what is it you have against a group of people banding together to negoitate a CONTRACT with their employer? what is your problem with the average worker knowing what pay/benefits they can expect from their employer in return for their labor? why is it your ok with the businesses having CONTRACTS with their execs and other businesses for whom they manufacture goods or purchase goods from, but you freak out when a group of workers wants a contract with their employer?
 
randel said:
please explain how they subvert the system?
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I have laid it out many times....you need to keep up or just read. Unions, in the Public sector give money to elect the people that they will sit across from during the negotiation. that is a subversion of the system.

also, please explain how giving tax breaks keeps prices low...also j,
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Tax breaks give incentive to business to come to an area. Providing jobs, and a vibrant economy. This is really 101 stuff.

you support big business, and that is fine, i've no problem with that, but answer me this...the execs of these companies all have, now say it with me now, CONTRACTS, and these CONTRACTS spell out exactly how much pay, and what benefits they can expect from their employer...these execs negoitate these CONTRACTS with these employers...and these businesses have CONTRACTS with other businesses stating how much they will purchase/ or produce of a product over a set amount of time, and what they will pay for goods/services.... everyone wants to know exactly what they can expect...so.....what is it you have against a group of people banding together to negoitate a CONTRACT with their employer? what is your problem with the average worker knowing what pay/benefits they can expect from their employer in return for their labor? why is it your ok with the businesses having CONTRACTS with their execs and other businesses for whom they manufacture goods or purchase goods from, but you freak out when a group of workers wants a contract with their employer?
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You could say that even in a non union shop when I get hired to do a job, I have a 'contract' with that employer to be paid a certain amount for my services. But that is different than unions.....Let me ask you randel....Do you consider yourself an average worker, or an above average worker?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
I have laid it out many times....you need to keep up or just read. Unions, in the Public sector give money to elect the people that they will sit across from during the negotiation. that is a subversion of the system.



Tax breaks give incentive to business to come to an area. Providing jobs, and a vibrant economy. This is really 101 stuff.




You could say that even in a non union shop when I get hired to do a job, I have a 'contract' with that employer to be paid a certain amount for my services. But that is different than unions.....Let me ask you randel....Do you consider yourself an average worker, or an above average worker?


j-mac
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so the pacs formed by corporations that contribute to candidates also subvert the system, right?
 
liblady said:
so the pacs formed by corporations that contribute to candidates also subvert the system, right?
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Depends, do you have a choice to contribute to PAC's, or are you forced to when you get a job?


j-mac
 
randel said:
if he is really interested in balancing his budget, he will drop the union busting shenanigans and sit down and hammer out a deal
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if he wants to fix this year's budget. he might do that. if he wants to put the state on a sound fiscal footing for the future then he will not. fixing a temporary gap without fixing the condition that causes it to occur is like treating gangrene with perfume.
 
"if he wants to put the state on a sound fiscal footing for the future then he will not"

Thank you. My thought precisely.
 
liblady said:
so the pacs formed by corporations that contribute to candidates also subvert the system, right?
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yes. the difference being largely

1. one of quantity, public sector unions are THE big players in the political donation world
2. one of quality, public sector unions can have a very narrow focus to succeed; corporations have to be a bit more wide-spread, and often have to find ways to purchase regulators on top of politicians.
3. one of timing, public sector unions as an interest group are currently far more powerful than (say) the chamber of commerce. (plus the chamber won't come threaten you in your home.)
 
cpwill said:
they couldn't.


but Republicans DON'T.

In Illinois, for example, the Democratic Congress and Governor committed what the Republians thought was state suicide by hiking tax rates to combat falling revenues in the middle of a depression. Republicans argued and shouted and promised that the result would be nothing but pain....

....but they stayed and voted. that's called "representative government".
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Call it whatever you want, it is a fact that Republicans have done whatever it takes to derail legislation they are not in favor of.

Gov Walker seems to be trying to give himself absolute power over public servants in his state. He has given his cronies (corps) a free-ride on taxes, then he guts the life out of the middle class to pay for it. The people of Wisconsin are on the side of unions, and he is wrong in refusing to negotiate, the 14 Democrats are on the side of the people and they are right in doing whatever it takes to force Walker to come to an agreement instead of insisting on his way, which will hurt many of the people in Wisconsin.

Recent polls are showing that the majority in Wisconsin are on the side of unions in spite of attempts by some groups to sway the vote against unions by asking leading questions that would bias their opinion. It's about what the people want, not just what a governor and his party want.
 
cpwill said:
well let's hope so.

because the problem is public unions.
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That's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, however, the majority of people of Wisconsin don't agree with you, and it is their state, and their jobs that they are fighting for.
 
mertex said:
Call it whatever you want, it is a fact that Republicans have done whatever it takes to derail legislation they are not in favor of.

Gov Walker seems to be trying to give himself absolute power over public servants in his state. He has given his cronies (corps) a free-ride on taxes, then he guts the life out of the middle class to pay for it. The people of Wisconsin are on the side of unions, and he is wrong in refusing to negotiate, the 14 Democrats are on the side of the people and they are right in doing whatever it takes to force Walker to come to an agreement instead of insisting on his way, which will hurt many of the people in Wisconsin.

Recent polls are showing that the majority in Wisconsin are on the side of unions in spite of attempts by some groups to sway the vote against unions by asking leading questions that would bias their opinion. It's about what the people want, not just what a governor and his party want.
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Exactly....and Walker is losing the war in the public arena. I would expect that Republicans are trying to figure out how to save face while finding a way out of the mess. Every day that this goes on, it is a victory for the people of the state of Wisconsin against a corrupt government that is seeking to silence the voice of the people.
 
You go ahead and run with this ;)

He is doing what he was elected to do...you know...elections have consequences ;)

I like how you folks have forgotten November....but we will bite you again next year.



disneydude said:
Exactly....and Walker is losing the war in the public arena. I would expect that Republicans are trying to figure out how to save face while finding a way out of the mess. Every day that this goes on, it is a victory for the people of the state of Wisconsin against a corrupt government that is seeking to silence the voice of the people.
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j-mac said:
That type of BS argument could be used both ways there Randy....If demo's were serious about turning America back into a prosperous country, they would drop the tax and spend, Socialist shenanigans and realize that Unions in this country have been rejected by the people and get to the business of not bankrupting their surroundings.


j-mac
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Really? I guess that's why the majority of people in Wisconsin are siding with the unions, right, because they are rejecting the unions! :lol:

New Polls show Wisconsin Voters support Protestors

Most Americans Side With Unions


Rasmussen's Unfair Method to Influence Pollsters against Unions
 
What sets us apart?

Commitment to progressive goals, ideas, and leaders


Welcome to Greenberg Quinlan Rosner

Like I said, you go ahead and run with this.

We'll be bak next year.
 
Amazed said:
You go ahead and run with this ;)

He is doing what he was elected to do...you know...elections have consequences ;)

I like how you folks have forgotten November....but we will bite you again next year.
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He wasn't elected to do any such thing...which is why the overwhelming majority of Wisconsins are pissed off and disagree with what this dictator wannabe is trying to do.
 
cpwill said:
sure they can. more than one successful business has started with a guy and an idea working out of his living room.
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and who makes the actual products? Your world - a world where you attempt to intellectually justify the absence of workers - is a nightmare and an abomination.
 
from Amazed

but we will bite you again next year.
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Oh I have little doubt that next year you will bite.
 
The Prof said:
on tax breaks:

Obama Calls Tax Cuts the 'Right Thing to Do'
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From your article:

The president stressed his displeasure with several aspects of the agreement, especially the extended tax cuts for the highest earners and the 35 percent rate for the estate tax. But he said that he did not want to risk the expiration of the middle-class tax cuts in the likely event of a lengthy impasse between Democrats and Republicans in Congress.

I guess it would be fair to add that if Obama hadn't agreed to the tax cuts for the wealthy, the middle class would have paid the price by losing theirs - the ones that really need it. Why is it that one party always takes the side of the wealthy and the corporations over the middle-class, the ones that make corporations and wealthy people wealthy. The same seems to hold true for unions.

on contracts:

FT.com / US / Economy & Fed - US public pensions face $2,500bn shortfall
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Sorry, your link doesn't allow viewing of the article unless you are registered - most forums disapprove of such links, I'm not sure if this one does.
 
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