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Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

buck said:
The tax breaks to attract business and build the tax base is a very small percentage of WI's budget. The funds necessary to compensate the public sector empoyees are a very large percentage of WI's budget. Even if you got rid of all of the proposed business tax breaks, WI would still be in a multi-billion dollar deficit.
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The teachers are not making any budgetary demands but the tax breaks for business cost the taxpayers over $100 million over the next several years. Like I said it just represents priorities for tax breaks over education.
 
Catawba said:
The teachers are not making any budgetary demands but the tax breaks for business cost the taxpayers over $100 million over the next several years. Like I said it just represents priorities for tax breaks over education.
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In the context of Wisconsin v public school unions, this has nothing to do with corporate tax breaks.

It has everything to do with: "Who is going to control spending in Wisconsin? The unions? Or the taxpayers?"
 
MaggieD said:
In the context of Wisconsin v public school unions, this has nothing to do with corporate tax breaks.

It has everything to do with: "Who is going to control spending in Wisconsin? The unions? Or the taxpayers?"
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So the taxpayers decided to pay more in taxes so they could give the $100 million in corporate tax breaks? Then why is there a short fall in their budget?
 
Catawba said:
The teachers are not making any budgetary demands but the tax breaks for business cost the taxpayers over $100 million over the next several years. Like I said it just represents priorities for tax breaks over education.
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They have a 137 deficit in the current fiscal period that has to be taken care of. The tax cuts are not and have not added a penny to that cost.

The "100 million over the next several years" that you quoted pales in comparison to the costs of public sector employees' benefits and salary in WI for just one year. They have to close the 3-4 billion dollar deficit projected for the next fiscal period. Taking back the "100 million over the next several years" will not even make a dent. The cuts have to come from the areas of biggest spending. Guess where that happens to be?
 
I think the unions should lose their collective bargaining rights. What are the facts that we know? We know that unions are typically democratic and that they repeatedly donate to democratic political causes. One spokesmouth at FOX stated that unions have donated around 130 million dollars. Based on the facts, unions get their money from taxpayers... some of them aren't democratic. Understanding this, what other view should I form?
 
buck said:
They have a 137 deficit in the current fiscal period that has to be taken care of. The tax cuts are not and have not added a penny to that cost.

The "100 million over the next several years" that you quoted pales in comparison to the costs of public sector employees' benefits and salary in WI for just one year. They have to close the 3-4 billion dollar deficit projected for the next fiscal period. Taking back the "100 million over the next several years" will not even make a dent. The cuts have to come from the areas of biggest spending. Guess where that happens to be?
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"UPDATE: It has been pointed out to us that Walker’s $117 million in business tax breaks are not part of Wisconsin’s $137 million budget deficit for Fiscal Year 2011, ending June 30, 2011. It will, however, create a budget shortfall for the 2011-2013 two-year budget. The state is expected to overspend by $258 million, through a combination of healthcare expenditures for the poor, prisons and debts to Minnesota. (If the $258 million is not spent, then Wisconsin will have a budget surplus of $121 million). It is these expenditures that Walker is looking to cut, and is attempting to do so by unilaterally short-circuiting the state labor unions’ collective bargaining rights."

"Why haven’t Wisconsin’s voters been up in arms that Walker cut $117 million in taxes for businesses, which will create a budget shortfall in the next two fiscal years? If this sort of information were blazing across Wisconsin television screens and on the cover of newspapers, it would certainly neutralize Walker’s political gamesmanship.

Wisconsin’s Legislative Fiscal Bureau (the equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office, or CBO) predicted a budget surplus (see update above). And not only does he remain silent about his actions with the business tax cuts, he has the audacity to use it as a means of neutralizing unions on behalf of business owners."
Scott Walker’s Manufactured Wisconsin Budget Crisis | Death and Taxes
 
Catawba said:
So the taxpayers decided to pay more in taxes so they could give the $100 million in corporate tax breaks? Then why is there a short fall in their budget?
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Not sure. Neither do you. However, it is smart. Especially with my states recent (and dumb) tax hikes. I expect quite a few businesses to leave IL and move to WI.
 
Catawba said:
"Why haven’t Wisconsin’s voters been up in arms that Walker cut $117 million in taxes for businesses, which will create a budget shortfall in the next two fiscal years? If this sort of information were blazing across Wisconsin television screens and on the cover of newspapers, it would certainly neutralize Walker’s political gamesmanship.
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Because the business tax cuts to hopefully bring new businesses to WI, create jobs, and expand the tax base must not be unpopular and is rather insignifcant when placed in comparison with the 3.6-3.8 billion dollar deficit they were expected to have in the next fiscal period. It's also insignifcant when compared to the amount WI spends on public sector employees' benefits and salaries.

I know if I had to balance a 3.8 billion dollar deficit, I would look to the areas where most of my money is going.
 
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buck said:
Because the business tax cuts to hopefully bring new businesses to WI, create jobs, and expand the tax base must not be unpopular and is rather insignifcant when placed in comparison with the 3.6-3.8 billion dollar deficit they were expected to have in the next fiscal period. It's also insignifcant when compared to the amount WI spends on public sector employees' benefits and salaries.

I know if I had to balance a 3.8 billion dollar deficit, I would look to the areas where most of my money is going.
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What a line of BS. All these governors are making all these cuts to make their states friendly to business. What are they going to all do - steal from each other? In Michigan Snyder is cutting business taxes by $1.8 billion dollars and increasing taxes by over $1. billion dollars on average people. Guess what Snyder did for a living before he became Governor in January? He was a businessman. Guess who the backbone of his political support is? Businessmen. Guess what occupation Snyder will go back to after he quits being governor. Businessman. And he gets to play on a whole new playing field that he was responsible to titling heavilly in his own direction and to his own advantage. Its disgusting.
 
haymarket said:
What a line of BS. All these governors are making all these cuts to make their states friendly to business. What are they going to all do - steal from each other? In Michigan Snyder is cutting business taxes by $1.8 billion dollars and increasing taxes by over $1. billion dollars on average people. Guess what Snyder did for a living before he became Governor in January? He was a businessman. Guess who the backbone of his political support is? Businessmen. Guess what occupation Snyder will go back to after he quits being governor. Businessman. And he gets to play on a whole new playing field that he was responsible to titling heavilly in his own direction and to his own advantage. Its disgusting.
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we live in a global economy, and yes, competition naturally exists between governments.
 
Democrats shouldn't compromise with a neoliberal scum bag who is out to destroy the unions.
 
zip98053 said:
The Governor doesn't need to send pink slips to anyone. He is trying to blame others for his actions. It’s like a criminal saying that it is someone else’s fault when they kill. "If you had paid the ransom..." This is fraudulent. If the Governor issues pink slips it is because the Governor issues pink slips and blaming someone else is disingenuous.
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The bill was Walker's way to try and keep from laying anyone off. So laying people off shouldn't be any big surprise if the bill fails to pass.
 
haymarket said:
Please show where Walker promised to take the steps that he has taken in the last few weeks.
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Can you show me where ANY politician states the exact steps he/she is going to take in an election campaign? You're grasping at straws here.
 
Catawba said:
But the state of Wisconsing can't afford to give corporations $100 million in tax cuts if teachers keep making these exorbinant salaries that allow them to lord their '93 Honda Acura's over us!

I saw a joke the other day that describes the sitution in Wisconsin perfectly,

"A CEO, a Tea-Partier, and a union member at a table with a plate of 12 cookies. The CEO takes 11 of the cookies, turns to the Tea Partier and says, "Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie."
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The joke makes no sense to me. Who do the cookies belong to in the first place? Who made them?
 
haymarket said:
from Mayor Snorkum



False. In many threads on this subject, Walker apologists have alleged this. When challenged to go back and produce campaign statements or campaign literature from Wlaker in which he promisedto take the radical steps he is now taking, nobody has been able to come up with them.
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The public unions have already ceded to Gov. Walker's wage demands, the only reason the senators left the is because the bill takes away most of their collective barganing rights. THAT'S THE ONLY REASON!!!!!!
 
haymarket said:
Maggie - did your material include campaign promises from Walker that he would take the steps he has to deny unions their legal rights to collective bargaining?

NO HE DID NOT.
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Your political stance on this issue is deaf, dumb and blind.
 
mertex said:
It looks like Walker no longer has all the support from the people, he thought he had.

A new poll released on Monday suggested that if the 2010 election could be replayed the Wisconsin governor might lose. The Public Policy Polling survey found that if the election were repeated the result would flip with Walker's Democratic opponent Tom Barrett getting 52 percent and Walker 45 percent. Walker won with 52 percent in November. The shift came mainly from union households.

Democrats differed from Walker's estimate, quoting on Monday a report from state fiscal analyst Al Runde saying that the restructuring Walker wants would add more than $42 million of interest payments over the long term.

In an interview broadcast on Sunday, Walker said he hoped to delay sending layoff notices to state workers if the legislature makes progress on fixing the budget deficit, according to website wispolitics.com.

But to postpone the layoffs, Walker said it will be necessary that his budget repair bill, including the move to end collective bargaining, go into effect by April 1.
Governor gives Wisconsin Democrats an ultimatum | Reuters


I wonder why so many love Christie, want him to run for President, yet they support Walker's position?Chris Christie: 'I love collective bargaining'
Chris Christie: 'I love collective bargaining' - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com
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If anything, Christie said, he’d like to see collective bargaining become a bigger part of how the state negotiates pay and benefits for its employees. [COLOR="red[COLOR="red"]"]“I’ve said let’s get rid of civil service and let everything be collectively bargained,[/[/COLOR]COLOR] as long as collective bargaining is fair, tough, adversarial and there’s someone in that room representing you,” he said
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Chris Christie: 'I love collective bargaining' - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com
 
I think I may understand the Governor's reasoning in that Democrats would rather vote than see workers fired. This puts even more political pressure on the Democrats, however, I hope the Governor realizes that this could equally come back to bite him in the ass. My understanding is that the Governor is not willing to compromise, and if he does end up firing people the voters could turn on him and the Democrats.
 
MaggieD said:
Your political stance on this issue is deaf, dumb and blind.
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Then open my ears and let me see. this should be simple for someone who has followed this so closely for weeks now maggie. Just reprint the words spoken by Walker on the campaign trail where he said he would attack and remove most of the collective bargaining rights of the unions. Pro union supporters have been asking for this since the beginning of this struggle so I am sure the conservatives have a website with all of it chronicled in detail. All you have to do is access it and print it right here.

I say he did no such thing and that is why you can produce nothing.

Prove me wrong.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Can you show me where ANY politician states the exact steps he/she is going to take in an election campaign? You're grasping at straws here.
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Not at all. I am attempting to deal with the reality of the situation.
 
ARealConservative said:
we live in a global economy, and yes, competition naturally exists between governments.
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So if every state cuts taxes on business to the bare bone and shifts the burden to working people, how do they all suddenly increase businesses coming to their state when nobody has an advantage to attract them anymore. This is a fools venture based on a lie that has never been proven to actually work.

This from TaxFoundation.org on the pitfalls of cutting taxes to attract business

State lawmakers are always mindful of their states' business tax climates but they are often tempted to lure business with lucrative tax incentives and subsidies instead of broad-based tax reform. This can be a dangerous proposition, as a case in Dell Computers and North Carolina illustrates. North Carolina agreed to $240 million worth of incentives to lure Dell to North Carolina. Many of the incentives came in form of tax credits from the state and local governments. Unfortunately Dell announced in 2009 that it would be closing the plant after only four years of operations. A recent USA Today article chronicled similar problems other states are having with companies who receive generous tax incentives.
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Businesses are akin to the ladies of the night who will only ply you with their favors as long as the money is rolling in their direction. As soon as a wealthier sucker comes along, the fun stops and they move on.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/bp59.pdf

According to the Tax Foundation, the top three states with the most favorable business climate and taxes are
1- South Dakota
2- Wyoming
3- Alaska

So where is the rush into all three of these states? New York is #49. I was there this summer and the city was booming big time a whole lot more than Minot, Casper and Juneau.

Nevada is ranked #4 in favorable climate for business and taxes but is #51 in unemployment rate.

So where is the beef?
 
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haymarket said:
Please show where Walker promised to take the steps that he has taken in the last few weeks.
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Here's an interesting piece about Walker and his history of battling unions over the years. If voters were informed about Walker, his actions should not be a surprise.

The Untold Story of Scott Walker's Longstanding History with Labor.

In eight years as Milwaukee County Executive, Scott Walker learned a lot about how local governments work. While taking on a formidable Democrat machine in Milwaukee, Walker experienced some bumps and bruises, but he had some victories under his belt too. He learned that there was more to balancing a government budget than fiscal wisdom. Every budgetary choice made by Scott Walker involving cuts was bucked, in one way or another, by AFSCME.
The year that best summarized Walker’s saga with local labor was probably 2010. As the 2008-2009 Great Recession hit the country, Milwaukee County's tax base felt the pinch. Walker called for an aggressive strategy of employee wage cuts and increased benefit contributions. AFSCME refused to accept those concessions provoking Walker to order layoffs and furloughs for hundreds of county workers. The exchange typified the continuing narrative that is Scott Walker.At no point during Walker’s eight year tenure did AFSCME recognize the financial impact the pension scandal had upon Milwaukee County. In short, Milwaukee County’s Pension Board - without so much as a cost study on pension benefits - passed ultra-lucrative pension buy-backs to hundreds of employees. Almost in a day, Milwaukee County government found herself mired in a $60 million hole without a viable exit strategy.
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haymarket said:
What a line of BS. All these governors are making all these cuts to make their states friendly to business. What are they going to all do - steal from each other? In Michigan Snyder is cutting business taxes by $1.8 billion dollars and increasing taxes by over $1. billion dollars on average people. Guess what Snyder did for a living before he became Governor in January? He was a businessman. Guess who the backbone of his political support is? Businessmen. Guess what occupation Snyder will go back to after he quits being governor. Businessman. And he gets to play on a whole new playing field that he was responsible to titling heavilly in his own direction and to his own advantage. Its disgusting.
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I can't speak to MI, but I do live in NE Illinois, and personally know of a business that has already moved to WI. The stated reason for their move was the increased taxes in IL and the expected decreased tax in WI.
 
pbrauer said:
The public unions have already ceded to Gov. Walker's wage demands, the only reason the senators left the is because the bill takes away most of their collective barganing rights. THAT'S THE ONLY REASON!!!!!!
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Who cares? Their are costs to the collective bargaining rights. If there weren't, the unions wouldn't be fighting so strongly to keep them. WI had a projected 3-4 billion dollar deficit. The state has two options, increase the taxes on everyone or reduce the spending. The governor of WI decided to reduce the spending. I personally think it's the better decision.
 
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