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Thread: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Which part don't you understand? Honest barganing? or the ability to undo what they promise today?


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    Give me an example of how both sides sign a contract and then one can undo it without being in violation of that same contract?
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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Give me an example of how both sides sign a contract and then one can undo it without being in violation of that same contract?
    Easy...What is happening now with the people leaving their classes, and jobs to protest, is a defacto strike, that is in violation of their contract. They are illegally leveraging a new negotiation, one that should not stand, which is one reason I think Walker will not compromise. The Union members are dishonest in their words.


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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Easy...What is happening now with the people leaving their classes, and jobs to protest, is a defacto strike, that is in violation of their contract. They are illegally leveraging a new negotiation, one that should not stand, which is one reason I think Walker will not compromise. The Union members are dishonest in their words.


    j-mac
    In your opinion - perhaps. Let us see if the administration sees it that way and pursues their avenues of discipline. I really do not see this as a great problem when there are safeguards and penalties built into the system to take care of these things.
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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I haven't heard anything about any layoffs except for this one instance, and that is because the Dems won't get back to WI to pass a budget bill. Do you have any proof for your claim? (part in bold)
    A little intellectual honesty please? How do you cut $1B plus out of a state budget without layoffs? Please take a moment to get real.

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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    It looks like the anti-union tea party types are starting to lose faith in their chances of victory

    Conservative group warns about losing union fight in Wisconsin - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room



    A new email soliciting donations from the Tea Party Express and Our Country Deserves sent out Saturday says that recent polls and an ad campaign by pro-labor groups are getting the upper hand and that conservatives backing Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's (R) bill to roll back collective bargaining rights are starting to cede ground. "Friends, new polls coming out in Wisconsin show that the Obama-Labor Union ad campaign against him is having an impact," the e-mail says. "Governor Walker has started losing ground, even though polls had previously shown him winning the "public relations war."

    The ad warns that there will be a national ripple effect if Walker's effort actually does lose in Wisconsin. "If we lose in Wisconsin then Republican Governors across America will take the lesson that they should give in and capitulate, and all the progress we have seen from the tea party movement will be undone," the e-mail continues.
    How sweet it is...... as the Great One used to say.
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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In your opinion - perhaps. Let us see if the administration sees it that way and pursues their avenues of discipline. I really do not see this as a great problem when there are safeguards and penalties built into the system to take care of these things.

    No, not just my opinion, I think there are others that may agree. But you see the problem is one of collective bargaining in the first place. It is that aspect that assures that these Public employees not fulfilling their contracts and staging an illegal strike right now won't be touched. I heard that the average to get one teacher let go for cause right now cost the taxpayers some $200K due to protracted processes that are just plain laughable. So what safegaurds might you be speaking of? As far as I see there are none.


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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, not just my opinion, I think there are others that may agree. But you see the problem is one of collective bargaining in the first place. It is that aspect that assures that these Public employees not fulfilling their contracts and staging an illegal strike right now won't be touched. I heard that the average to get one teacher let go for cause right now cost the taxpayers some $200K due to protracted processes that are just plain laughable. So what safegaurds might you be speaking of? As far as I see there are none.


    j-mac
    I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Administration does similar stuff all the time. People are suppose to get breaks and they never do. People are suppose to get support and they never do. I once had a principal tell me I was right about something in the contract and then dare me to file a grievance against him. I was a first year teacher and I understood what he was also threatening to me so I did not . I made up for it in later years however.
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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    A little intellectual honesty please? How do you cut $1B plus out of a state budget without layoffs? Please take a moment to get real.
    Well, for example, the auto industry had the best health care benefits of any industry, and workers went on strike to protect their benefits from being slashed. Then their companies were forced into bankruptcy. Unions can prove detrimental at times.

    Anyway, my point is you could cut costs without layoffs through some of the following methods:

    1 - Reduce benefits for those workers.
    2 - Reduce materials expense, purchases of materials used by the workers.
    3 - Reduce property held, which the bill in seeking to give power to sell power plants appeared to be seeking to do.
    4 - Reduce bureaucracy - the collective bargaining process takes time and time is money so it might have indirect effects in making better use of time for work.

    Anyway, those are just off the top of my head, but it would definitely allow for reducing costs without firing workers. You figure the budget is in the $35-80 billion range, those should easily allow leeway for cutting $1 billion.

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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    A little intellectual honesty please? How do you cut $1B plus out of a state budget without layoffs? Please take a moment to get real.
    In case you hadn't noticed it Walkers plan reduces spending without laying off one single person. Know how it happened? Reducing salaries. No one gets laid off but the budget is smaller.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Wis. governor to Dems: Return or 1,500 workers will be axed

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Administration does similar stuff all the time. People are suppose to get breaks and they never do. People are suppose to get support and they never do. I once had a principal tell me I was right about something in the contract and then dare me to file a grievance against him. I was a first year teacher and I understood what he was also threatening to me so I did not . I made up for it in later years however.


    Sorry, "the other guy does it too" didn't work with my kids, and won't work here. But glad to see you agree that the offer of consessions is an empty promise by the Unions.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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