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Unemployment dips to 8.9 pct., 192K jobs added

fwiw, some 800 toobigs have asked for and received waivers from obamacare's requirement that they lift the yearly cap on coverage

HHS grants 500 new healthcare waivers - The Hill's Healthwatch

why do so many want out?

why are they allowed to go?

what will hhs say to the next hundred (or thousand) applicants?

am i in or am i out---has to be one sobering question asked by any serious would-be expansionist

the upshot is---uncertainty

as for housing, there are millions more foreclosures out there

Foreclosure problem will worsen in 2011 - Business - Real estate - msnbc.com

stay up
 
Don't you just love CBO projections? Never right but often quoted. Interesting that the CBO scored the entire TAX cut program not just the tax on those evil rich people. You have to do better than this but like all other leftists keeping more of what one earns is always an expense to the govt. That is except of course the money you get to keep, right? Did you ever think that just maybe people keeping more of what they earn might just mean they need less of that 3.7 TRILLION Dollar govt?

"The tax bill gave a $91,000 tax cut, on average, to those earning more than $1 million a year. Most Americans, however, get less than $100."

Congressional Record

We see what percentage of those tax cuts went to the middle class.
 
FWIW, on March 9, 2009, the Dow Jones Industrial Average hit a 12 year low at 6,547.05. It has since then increased by 86% to 12,169.88. Stock prices were not unbelievably over valued, instead it was real estate. It will take a few more years to see even a modest recovery, much less 86% :peace

I stand corrected. But in my defense, I can only personnaly attest to the DOW's 9,000 point low since that was when I first started paying attention to the stock market since the economy collapsed. For future reference, I'll try to use more reliable sources other than my memory when making such arguments.

Again, thanks for the assist.
 
"The tax bill gave a $91,000 tax cut, on average, to those earning more than $1 million a year. Most Americans, however, get less than $100."

Congressional Record

We see what percentage of those tax cuts went to the middle class.

LOL, you do realize that 47% of the income earners don't pay ANY Federal Income Taxes? Why would they get a tax cut? Again why do you care how much someone else pays in Federal Income taxes since obviously you don't care about the 47% that don't pay any Federal Income Taxes?
 
fwiw, some 800 toobigs have asked for and received waivers from obamacare's requirement that they lift the yearly cap on coverage

HHS grants 500 new healthcare waivers - The Hill's Healthwatch

why do so many want out?

why are they allowed to go?

what will hhs say to the next hundred (or thousand) applicants?

am i in or am i out---has to be one sobering question asked by any serious would-be expansionist

the upshot is---uncertainty

I debunked this argument nearly one month ago. The majority of these waivers have gone to: 1) the self-employed, 2) employers that offer mini-med plans like those offered by most fast-food establishments such as McDonald's or Burger King, and 3) "collective-bargaining" health plans typically offered to unions and non-profit organizations. For more detail, go here (post #12) then review the information contained in the references linked therein.

as for housing, there are millions more foreclosures out there

Foreclosure problem will worsen in 2011 - Business - Real estate - msnbc.com

stay up[/QUOTE]

Then that means eventually a million+ people will find a place to live. For as Conservatives are fond of saying, "the markets will self-correct". It's all just a matter of time.
 
LOL, you do realize that 47% of the income earners don't pay ANY Federal Income Taxes? Why would they get a tax cut? Again why do you care how much someone else pays in Federal Income taxes since obviously you don't care about the 47% that don't pay any Federal Income Taxes?

I guess if you have no interest in paying down the National debt and are happy with the middle class subsidizing tax cuts for the uber wealthy, than there is no problem. Keep sending in your tax dollars to help the poor billionaires! :sun
 
"The tax bill gave a $91,000 tax cut, on average, to those earning more than $1 million a year. Most Americans, however, get less than $100."

Congressional Record

We see what percentage of those tax cuts went to the middle class.

I simply do not believe the numbers you just used. In the tax cut deal, payroll taxes were cut by 2%. So anyone making over $5k annually would benefit by $100. I don't know your tax bracket but most Americans make more than $5K, which is about half my property tax.
 
I guess if you have no interest in paying down the National debt and are happy with the middle class subsidizing tax cuts for the uber wealthy, than there is no problem. Keep sending in your tax dollars to help the poor billionaires! :sun

Yes, the way to pay down the debt is to stop spending over three trillion dollars a year. You make wild accusations that again you never back up. How do the middle class subsidize tax cuts to the wealthy when 47% don't pay any Federal Income taxes? You do have a problem understanding numbers, just like the "cut" in unemployment rate in February. What would you expect to happen when 1 million people dropped out of the unemployment number by dropping out of the labor market due to discouragement?
 
The majority of these waivers have gone to: 1) the self-employed, 2) employers that offer mini-med plans like those offered by most fast-food establishments such as McDonald's or Burger King, and 3) "collective-bargaining" health plans typically offered to unions and non-profit organizations.

yup

Then that means eventually a million+ people will find a place to live.

it means quite a bit more than that

For as Conservatives are fond of saying, "the markets will self-correct". It's all just a matter of time.

quite a lot of time, i'm afraid

pooh pooh
 
The Prof,

So, now that you know the truth concerning the waivers that have been granted and the types of businesses that are applying for them, can you please stop spreading such lies and start telling the truth? If the waivers were going to hundreds of Fortune 500 companies, I'd be with you on this issue. But since they aren't, I think it dishonest to continue making claims that a broad range of businesses across the country are applying for them. Because that's just not true.
 
LOL, you do realize that 47% of the income earners don't pay ANY Federal Income Taxes? Why would they get a tax cut? Again why do you care how much someone else pays in Federal Income taxes since obviously you don't care about the 47% that don't pay any Federal Income Taxes?

It seems that you are overlooking a few things conservative. The “47% of the income earners” that you say pay no tax. Maybe not income taxes but when all the tax that they pay is added up, I would imagine it would come out that overall their tax bill would be comparable.

Considering that they pay a higher percentage of their income on gas tax, a higher percentage of their income on property tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on sales tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on tolls (where there are tolls). a higher percentage of their income on Social Security tax and a higher percentage of their income on Medicare tax.

When all is added up, it would be a pretty safe bet that they might even pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the top percent.:2wave:
 
It seems that you are overlooking a few things conservative. The “47% of the income earners” that you say pay no tax. Maybe not income taxes but when all the tax that they pay is added up, I would imagine it would come out that overall their tax bill would be comparable.

Considering that they pay a higher percentage of their income on gas tax, a higher percentage of their income on property tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on sales tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on tolls (where there are tolls). a higher percentage of their income on Social Security tax and a higher percentage of their income on Medicare tax.

When all is added up, it would be a pretty safe bet that they might even pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the top percent.:2wave:

The President doesn't control state or local taxes and Bush's tax cuts were Federal Income tax cuts. It wasn't me that said that 47% of income earners don't pay any Federal Income taxes it was the IRS. You have a problem with the numbers take it up with them, not that you even care or would understand the answers.

People that don't drive, don't pay gasoline taxes, people that don't own homes pay very little if any in property taxes, people that don't drive toll roads don't pay any tolls, but people who don't pay any Federal Income taxes still get benefits from the Federal Govt and pay nothing for it.

I do realize that I have to be very specific with liberals therefore I always make sure that when I say taxes I state FEDERAL INCOME TAXES. Still you ignore it

From my post to Catawba

you do realize that 47% of the income earners don't pay ANY Federal Income Taxes?
 
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meanwhile, big picture:

housing is buckled, no shore up in sight

revenues from property taxes are miniscule

fannie and fred are looking at a half T

the muni markets are necessarily downgraded

public pensions at the state level alone are 2.5T under

medicaid is unmanageable---NOW

interest on the national debt is soon to approach 1T per

oil is exploding, food prices are becoming an international crisis

obamacare raises three quarters of a T in new "revenues," says cbo

the gao this week reported a full half T of pfft, "most of it in the last 2 years"

the fed has obligated 2.7T of public trust in UNDIVERSIFIED junk

the president's proposals are all punt

and debateforums members wanna quibble, score little points against their anonymous little nemeses

you're just not serious
 
QUOTE Conservative

The President doesn't control state or local taxes and Bush's tax cuts were Federal Income tax cuts. It wasn't me that said that 47% of income earners don't pay any Federal Income taxes it was the IRS.

I coulda sworn you said this in post #208 "How do the middle class subsidize tax cuts to the wealthy when 47% don't pay any Federal Income taxes?".

People that don't drive, don't pay gasoline taxes,

Out of a population of 307,006,550,we have 254.4 million registered passenger vehicles. Hhmm…according to my handy dandy calculator that comes pretty close to 84%, then you have a whole bunch of (trucking) owner Opps on the road driving two, sometimes three thousand miles a week,paying exorbitant prices for diesel fuel. I’m guessing it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that at least 90% of the population pays tax on fuel.

people that don't own homes pay very little if any in property taxes,

Sure they do, when they pay the lease/rent.Cost passed on by the property owner,

people that don't drive toll roads don't pay any tolls,

Sure they do, when they buy groceries.% of freight charges is passed on, as is the fuel surcharge.

but people who don't pay any Federal Income taxes still get benefits from the Federal Govt and pay nothing for it.


Did it slip your mind what my premise was?

The percent of income ”all of the taxes that the 47% that you claimed didn’t pay income tax”, was equal to the percent of taxes that the top percent pay in income taxes.
 
I coulda sworn you said this in post #208 "How do the middle class subsidize tax cuts to the wealthy when 47% don't pay any Federal Income taxes?".



Out of a population of 307,006,550,we have 254.4 million registered passenger vehicles. Hhmm…according to my handy dandy calculator that comes pretty close to 84%, then you have a whole bunch of (trucking) owner Opps on the road driving two, sometimes three thousand miles a week,paying exorbitant prices for diesel fuel. I’m guessing it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that at least 90% of the population pays tax on fuel.



Sure they do, when they pay the lease/rent.Cost passed on by the property owner,



Sure they do, when they buy groceries.% of freight charges is passed on, as is the fuel surcharge.




Did it slip your mind what my premise was?

The percent of income ”all of the taxes that the 47% that you claimed didn’t pay income tax”, was equal to the percent of taxes that the top percent pay in income taxes.

Obviously you need to actually do some research for a change, the 47% that don't pay any Federal Income taxes all make 50,000 or less per year according to the IRS. The rest of your post is typical from you, saying nothing of value.
 
It seems that you are overlooking a few things conservative. The “47% of the income earners” that you say pay no tax. Maybe not income taxes but when all the tax that they pay is added up, I would imagine it would come out that overall their tax bill would be comparable.

Considering that they pay a higher percentage of their income on gas tax, a higher percentage of their income on property tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on sales tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on tolls (where there are tolls). a higher percentage of their income on Social Security tax and a higher percentage of their income on Medicare tax.

When all is added up, it would be a pretty safe bet that they might even pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the top percent.:2wave:

And of course all these EVIL successful wealthy people are exempt from paying all those local, city, county, state, sales tax..etc, not to mention that when the Government takes their (evil rich's) money in taxes the government always wastes it to purchase more votes by providing more entitlements to less fortunate (supposed) because NUMBERS MATTER in a representative democracy. But...if the successful people keep their money they spend it...on things like buying triple digit autos, million dollar homes, 1000 dollars dinners..etc.....all of which MAKE JOBS on main street instead of being divided up among the politicians private bank accounts through lobby kickbacks, special interest groups pet projects...etc.,

The truth in this nation is the fact that once POLITICIANS realized they could use WE THE PEOPLE'S money to promote CLASS WARFARE and envy by buying their votes with the promise of entitlement, security, nanny care...etc., this REPUBLIC was over and the US began to be swallowed up into the same trap of corruption that engulfs all SOCIALIST nations..the politicians became hungry for power and wealth and citizens became lazy and started to game the system. And evidence to make this conclusion beyond the reason for any sane person to doubt? Really, do you accept as truth that almost half or 150,000,000 of all the citizens in these United States are so impoverished that they need to be exempt from paying TAXES at any level AND IN FACT...almost always get a REBATE welfare check from BIG BROTHER at the end of the Tax Year? Really?

Once the 50% number is breeched and the majority always vote to KEEP their entitlements....there will be a ONE PARTY take over and its instant tyranny. The "ONLY" reason that it is not as bad as it could be right now? THE drones who live off Big Brother's thievery of WE THE PEOPLE'S wealth are so lazy...they by majority do not even vote as of right now we are lucky to get a 40% turn out....but let someone threaten their piece of the cherry pie...and you GET "WISCONSIN" all over the United States, which is not really any different than Greece, Spain, France, England..etc., People by nature are just like water or electricity, they will take the path of less resistance...if they can get by without working or working as little as they can for the most amount of coin....DAMN STRAIGHT they will riot when their apple cart is about to be turned over. These damn democrats are playing with fire and being used and simply fail to see the big picture.
 
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Obviously you need to actually do some research for a change, the 47% that don't pay any Federal Income taxes all make 50,000 or less per year according to the IRS. The rest of your post is typical from you, saying nothing of value.

I guess this post is an admission that you don’t have anything to say about what I have posted then. Here, take another look at it, maybe something will kick in.:2wave:



< Considering that they pay a higher percentage of their income on gas tax, a higher percentage of their income on property tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on sales tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on tolls (where there are tolls). a higher percentage of their income on Social Security tax and a higher percentage of their income on Medicare tax.>
 
And of course all these EVIL successful wealthy people are exempt from paying all those local, city, county, state, sales tax..etc, not to mention that when the Government takes their (evil rich's) money in taxes the government always wastes it to purchase more votes by providing more entitlements to less fortunate (supposed) because NUMBERS MATTER in a representative democracy. But...if the successful people keep their money they spend it...on things like buying triple digit autos, million dollar homes, 1000 dollars dinners..etc.....all of which MAKE JOBS on main street instead of being divided up among the politicians private bank accounts through lobby kickbacks, special interest groups pet projects...etc.,

The truth in this nation is the fact that once POLITICIANS realized they could use WE THE PEOPLE'S money to promote CLASS WARFARE and envy by buying their votes with the promise of entitlement, security, nanny care...etc., this REPUBLIC was over and the US began to be swallowed up into the same trap of corruption that engulfs all SOCIALIST nations..the politicians became hungry for power and wealth and citizens became lazy and started to game the system. And evidence to make this conclusion beyond the reason for any sane person to doubt? Really, do you accept as truth that almost half or 150,000,000 of all the citizens in these United States are so impoverished that they need to be exempt from paying TAXES at any level AND IN FACT...almost always get a REBATE welfare check from BIG BROTHER at the end of the Tax Year? Really?

Once the 50% number is breeched and the majority always vote to KEEP their entitlements....there will be a ONE PARTY take over and its instant tyranny. The "ONLY" reason that it is not as bad as it could be right now? THE drones who live off Big Brother's thievery of WE THE PEOPLE'S wealth are so lazy...they by majority do not even vote as of right now we are lucky to get a 40% turn out....but let someone threaten their piece of the cherry pie...and you GET "WISCONSIN" all over the United States, which is not really any different than Greece, Spain, France, England..etc., People by nature are just like water or electricity, they will take the path of less resistance...if they can get by without working or working as little as they can for the most amount of coin....DAMN STRAIGHT they will riot when their apple cart is about to be turned over. These damn democrats are playing with fire and being used and simply fail to see the big picture.

Hhmm…are you trying to set a record of how many straw men you can squeeze into a post? Keep trying, I believe I have seen a few that have beat this post out…not many but a few.:2wave:
 
I guess this post is an admission that you don’t have anything to say about what I have posted then. Here, take another look at it, maybe something will kick in.:2wave:



< Considering that they pay a higher percentage of their income on gas tax, a higher percentage of their income on property tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on sales tax, pay a higher percentage of their income on tolls (where there are tolls). a higher percentage of their income on Social Security tax and a higher percentage of their income on Medicare tax.>

What does that have to do with the post saying that the IRS says that 47% of all income earners DON'T PAY ANY FEDERAL INCOME TAXES? What does percentage of income have to do with it since most of the taxes you list are use taxes not income taxes? Do people who don't pay any Federal Income taxes use any of the services that the rest of the taxpayers provide?
 
I coulda sworn you said this in post #208 "How do the middle class subsidize tax cuts to the wealthy when 47% don't pay any Federal Income taxes?".



Out of a population of 307,006,550,we have 254.4 million registered passenger vehicles. Hhmm…according to my handy dandy calculator that comes pretty close to 84%, then you have a whole bunch of (trucking) owner Opps on the road driving two, sometimes three thousand miles a week,paying exorbitant prices for diesel fuel. I’m guessing it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that at least 90% of the population pays tax on fuel.



Sure they do, when they pay the lease/rent.Cost passed on by the property owner,



Sure they do, when they buy groceries.% of freight charges is passed on, as is the fuel surcharge.




Did it slip your mind what my premise was?

The percent of income ”all of the taxes that the 47% that you claimed didn’t pay income tax”, was equal to the percent of taxes that the top percent pay in income taxes.


I'm not going to get deep into this because the research would be never ending, but the point you seem to be missing, is those 1% you are talking about, buy these same things, in much larger quantities, or prices then those in the lower classes. care to compare what they pay in property taxes compared to those renting? How about the sales tax on the cars brought by the top 1% vrs the bottom ?
If you are going to compare the tax load of those lower 47, to those in the upper 1% should it not be done equally?
 
I'm not going to get deep into this because the research would be never ending, but the point you seem to be missing, is those 1% you are talking about, buy these same things, in much larger quantities, or prices then those in the lower classes. care to compare what they pay in property taxes compared to those renting? How about the sales tax on the cars brought by the top 1% vrs the bottom ?
If you are going to compare the tax load of those lower 47, to those in the upper 1% should it not be done equally?

Go back and take a good look the post that I was replying to and then tell me what my premise was. Clue…it had nothing to do with the spending habits of the 1%.

If you want to expand beyond that, i will be glad to.I think i could make a pretty good case.But we would be advised to make another thread for that purpose. :2wave:
 
I agreed with you until you returned to the same flawed excuse every other Conservative has been using for some time...



...the same lie I just finished disproving concerning the relationship between businesses and the PPAC which once against HAS NOT come into full effect where the private business sector is concerned. Here's the truth of the matter:

As health costs soar, GOP and insurers differ on cause

Barely a mention of ObamaCare or any other new federal policy or mandate, but even when the PPAC is referenced, its effect is placed in its proper context where rising premium costs are concerned. Bottom line here is it's just "business as usual", the markets doing what the markets do. And in this case, it's the same fluxuations in medical treatments, procedures and services that are the root causes to insurance premium increases, not the PPAC itself.

Now, if you wish to argue that because the door has been opened to allow people with pre-existing conditions to now be covered or that young adults between the ages of 21-26 are now allowed to remain on their parent's insurance plans, I'd probably give some leeway except as I've reviewed these patient inclusions within the health care system these such individuals are NOT getting a free-ride; they have to pay insurance premiums like everyone else, i.e., child-care policies. Therefore, the argument that the PPAC is the root cause for rising health care cost is a total falsehood!


If you had read my post, I was not talking about the cost of health care, I was talking about the fact that this law is so much up in the air with the lawsuits and such going on it with it ... but seeing you brought it up .. maybe you can explain the following


Immediately after President Obama signed his health-care bill into law, several large companies disclosed to investors just how big the tax hit from it would be. AT&T, for instance, said that the law’s tax increases alone would cost the company $1 billion.
To put it in perspective, AT&T; will see a $1 billion tax increase in just the first quarter. Deere, Boeing, Caterpillar, Prudential Life, 3M, Honeywell, AK Steel Holding Corp, ITW, Valero Energy, and Allegheny Technologies. All have announced ObamaCare will cost them hundreds of millions every year.
Key committee chairman Rep. Henry Waxman, California Democrat — whose energetic investigations are loathed by many in Washington — demanded reams of documents to investigate whether the companies were making a political show out of the cost disclosures.

And then … nothing. Waxman at the last minute canceled a hearing to grill executives about the issue.
Publicly, Waxman said the investigation showed the companies’ disclosures were properly filed.

So one has to assume seeing Waxman dropped his investigation, and this story was quickly swept under the rug and hushed up, that these costs are indeed going to be occurred by these and other companies.
 
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Go back and take a good look the post that I was replying to and then tell me what my premise was. Clue…it had nothing to do with the spending habits of the 1%.

If you want to expand beyond that, i will be glad to.I think i could make a pretty good case.But we would be advised to make another thread for that purpose. :2wave:

-chuckles- Oh I know, you were pointing out that they do pay some taxes, it was your comparison to of saying they pay as a percentage of income more then those that do pay income taxes I was taking exception to.

Gets out my handy dandy calculator, I'll even give you a break, the bottom of the top 5% of income earners is 180,000 dollars. Now lets say they get off paying just 15% in income taxes, (that figure is half of what they are suppose to pay) that means you are going to have to show me proof of where a person earning say 30,000 pays 4,500 dollars in some sort of federal tax . Just to get to an even percentage rate of the upper 5 %... after you do that.... then we can get into the spending the habits of the upper 5% and those in the lower 47%
 
Immediately after President Obama signed his health-care bill into law, several large companies disclosed to investors just how big the tax hit from it would be. AT&T, for instance, said that the law’s tax increases alone would cost the company $1 billion.
To put it in perspective, AT&T; will see a $1 billion tax increase in just the first quarter.

Do you support subsidizing retirement health care costs for AT&T?
 
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