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Thread: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

  1. #21
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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    What single person had the most power over the direction of the economy? Who set interest rates, monetary policy and money supply. What one person could have stopped the housing bubble in it's tracks?
    Apparently the person with hindsight.

    Why do you need to ask questions to engage in the same scapegoating?

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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Apparently the person with hindsight.

    Why do you need to ask questions to engage in the same scapegoating?
    Why do you let those responsible off the hook? Greenspan had the greatest impact on creating the housing bubble. His cheap, easy money policies were instrumental in creating the bubble and it's collapse.

    People in denial will never learn from their mistakes. They didn't learn from the Savings and Loan collapse and repeated history. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Bush trying to get everyone to own their own home didn't help much either.

    As for hindsight. I work in the housing sector and could see exactly what was happening and that the collapse was inevitable. Building 20 years worth of homes in three years was the giveaway.


    Scapegoating? The housing bubble didn't just happen, it was created.
    Last edited by USA_1; 03-04-11 at 03:17 PM.
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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Bubbles existed before the new deal and great society and they will exist after

    Bubble creation is a function of debt creation. Control the amount of debt being created and bubbles will also be controlled. Allow for a large amount of debt to be created and the potential bubble will be large. The institutions that control money supply are the ones who can help create bubbles (the environment required for one) or help prevent bubbles (eliminating the environment for one)
    bubbles also existed prior to the implementation of fiat currency, but it wasn't as significant as they are now.

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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    bubbles also existed prior to the implementation of fiat currency, but it wasn't as significant as they are now.
    Control over the money supply (to inflate it) is far easier with a fiat currency then with a hard metalic based one. Making the generation of bubbles easier to build and maintain for periods of time
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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Control over the money supply (to inflate it) is far easier with a fiat currency then with a hard metalic based one. Making the generation of bubbles easier to build and maintain for periods of time
    that's my point. debt creation itself is far easier, and the desire to create debt is directly tied to great society and new deal programs. so these programs can be blamed for a good portion of every bubble that has come about in the last century.

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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    that's my point. debt creation itself is far easier, and the desire to create debt is directly tied to great society and new deal programs. so these programs can be blamed for a good portion of every bubble that has come about in the last century.
    How is the desire to create debt tied to the great deal and great society?

    US government debt to gpd was stable from around the early 60s to the 80s when it increased dramatically during the Reagan admin. Even total US debt (government, corporate and personal) didnt start to sky rocket untill the 80s. I doubt the US during that time was in thrall to the welfare state (Reagan, the Bush`s admins)
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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    People in denial will never learn from their mistakes. They didn't learn from the Savings and Loan collapse and repeated history. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
    Exactly. Continuing to claim government isn't causing these issues, or is somehow able to predict and prevent them despite the evidence to the contrary, is insane.

    Nearly ever claimed cause of the S&L crisis involves government inexperience, inablity to enforce their own laws, their improper de-regulation, Government tax manipulation, or the moral hazards created by (like always) federall guaranteeting and overseeing risky lending. It's not that they aren't decent people that work a fair amount...it's that central planning is now and always will be dangerous.

    Any idiot knows that if you allow someone to believe someone else is "responsible", they will act irresponsibly. They won't even *try* to act resopnsibly...why should they? It's been delgated, and those "other people" will keep them in check. But wait, I can make millions if I make this risky investment...well, it's certainly worth trying for millions right? I mean, government will stop me if I do something wrong, since they are responsible (according to you), right? How the **** can Alan Greenspan be sufficiently or logistically incentivized to understand every player in the maket and ever action they take? It is indeed, insane. That's why individual ownership and accountability always win out.

    And the worst possibly type of system to take on critical, hard, complicated, responsibility, is CENTRAL PLANNING.

    What do you think real estate investors thought when they saw the fed bail out the S&L crisis? Hey neat, we can do this again and big daddy will bail us out.

    As for hindsight. I work in the housing sector and could see exactly what was happening and that the collapse was inevitable. Building 20 years worth of homes in three years was the giveaway.
    So I assume you took measures to insulate yourself from it? If so, that's exactly how it's supposed to work. Notice it wasn't government that saved you, they only made it worse for everyone else.
    Last edited by Mach; 03-04-11 at 03:48 PM.

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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    How is the desire to create debt tied to the great deal and great society?
    It’s a simplification, the programs actually desire to spend more money, not create debt. And hindsight has shown us that the money will get spent regardless of if the money exists to spend.

    US government debt to gpd was stable from around the early 60s to the 80s when it increased dramatically during the Reagan admin. Even total US debt (government, corporate and personal) didnt start to sky rocket untill the 80s. I doubt the US during that time was in thrall to the welfare state (Reagan, the Bush`s admins)
    GDP includes government spending, so I reject the utility of such comparisons.

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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    It’s a simplification, the programs actually desire to spend more money, not create debt. And hindsight has shown us that the money will get spent regardless of if the money exists to spend.



    GDP includes government spending, so I reject the utility of such comparisons.
    How can you reject the utility of such comparisons when the figures for the amount of debt created in just the last 30 years in comparison to GDP has doubled. No amount or lack of government spending would be able to paper that number over
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    Re: Greenspan says Government Activism Hurting Recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    How can you reject the utility of such comparisons when the figures for the amount of debt created in just the last 30 years in comparison to GDP has doubled. No amount or lack of government spending would be able to paper that number over
    I’m not rejecting the comparison from the 60’s to the 80’s as being artificial. Spending in the 80’s under Reagan was absolutely ridiculous and the love he receives sickens me to this day.

    What I reject is the relationship of gdp to debt as a meaningful study of a healthy economy. Massive spending will allow gdp to increase massively. If you are spending and borrowing, the comparison of debt to gdp will stay relatively stable because they are so closely related

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