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Thread: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    That is NUTS. That is ****ING NUTS. It is FAR BETTER to let 100 guilty people walk than to execute a SINGLE INNOCENT PERSON.
    And if those 100 guilty people each kill 1 innocent person? Instead of killing one innocent person you just killed 100. Yeah...great logic there.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 03-07-11 at 11:22 PM.
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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And if those 100 guilty people each kill 1 innocent person? Instead of killing one innocent person you just killed 100. Yeah...great logic there.
    It doesn't matter. To pull someone off the street, arrest them, try them and convict them and kill them is murder by the state. That is absolutely unacceptable. Murder by a thug is one thing, but a murder from prosecutorial misconduct is absurd. You can't stop a murderer from committing his crime, but damn, EVERY FYCKING STEP SHOULD BE TAKEN TO PREVENT OUR OWN GOV'T FROM DOING THE SAME THING.

    I can't believe you actually just said that. I always thought you to be pretty smart and reasonable. Wow, was I wrong.

    We're talking about the state finding a innocent man guilty of a crime they did not commit and being executed for that crime, not murder victims in the streets. So because 100 murderers kill someone, that gives the state to right to fyck up and kill an innocent man? Is that right? I want to make sure I'm clear on this.
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 03-08-11 at 02:16 AM.

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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    It doesn't matter. To pull someone off the street, arrest them, try them and convict them and kill them is murder by the state. That is absolutely unacceptable. Murder by a thug is one thing, but a murder from prosecutorial misconduct is absurd. You can't stop a murderer from committing his crime, but damn, EVERY FYCKING STEP SHOULD BE TAKEN TO PREVENT OUR OWN GOV'T FROM DOING THE SAME THING.

    I can't believe you actually just said that. I always thought you to be pretty smart and reasonable. Wow, was I wrong.

    We're talking about the state finding a innocent man guilty of a crime they did not commit and being executed for that crime, not murder victims in the streets. So because 100 murderers kill someone, that gives the state to right to fyck up and kill an innocent man? Is that right? I want to make sure I'm clear on this.
    Do you think that there is a difference between killing someone accidentally and killing someone in cold blood? Most people would agree that the cold blooded killer is far worse than the accidental killer.

    There are state sanctioned deaths every single day. We currently have two wars going on in which someone dies pretty much every single day. In fact a nations military is designed specifically to kill people...even if innocent people get in the way. Its called collateral damage. Is it desireable? Of course not. However sometimes it is necessary and it does happen... no matter what precautions are taken to avoid it, it happens. And it happens in order to serve a greater good. And that is to preserve the life, liberty, and property of far more people than the few who got killed. As the old axiom states..."The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one".

    Now if the state was sentencing innocent people when they knew that those people were innocent and then killed them..yeah that is wrong. But we're not talking about purposeful killings. We are talking about accidental killings. Something that is not wanted, but sometimes happens no matter the precautions taken.
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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And if those 100 guilty people each kill 1 innocent person? Instead of killing one innocent person you just killed 100. Yeah...great logic there.
    He didn't kill anyone. The scenario he's talking about doesn't really exist, and neither does yours.

    The point is that innocent until proven guilty isn't just a platitude, it's a virtue. One of the consequences of living in a country that supports due process and individual rights is that the guilty sometimes go free. That's the price we pay for having human rights and freedom. It's not always going to be rosey and justice isn't always going to be perfect.

    I would much rather have this system than the gulags, even if it means we have some murderers go free from time to time.

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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    He didn't kill anyone. The scenario he's talking about doesn't really exist, and neither does yours.

    The point is that innocent until proven guilty isn't just a platitude, it's a virtue. One of the consequences of living in a country that supports due process and individual rights is that the guilty sometimes go free. That's the price we pay for having human rights and freedom. It's not always going to be rosey and justice isn't always going to be perfect.

    I would much rather have this system than the gulags, even if it means we have some murderers go free from time to time.


    Where did I say that "he" killed anyone?

    And what the heck are you talking about here with the "innoncent until proven guilty isn't just a plaitude" bit there? We're talking about people that have been proven guilty in a court of law.

    Seriously...have you even read what we have been talking about here in the last few posts? Now I admit that we have strayed from the original topic a bit here but dang...
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Where did I say that "he" killed anyone?
    "Instead of killing one innocent person you just killed 100."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And what the heck are you talking about here with the "innoncent until proven guilty isn't just a plaitude" bit there? We're talking about people that have been proven guilty in a court of law.
    Calm down.

    What I said is relevant to the death penalty, because if even one innocent person is being put to death then the system is flawed and abolition is justified.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Seriously...have you even read what we have been talking about here in the last few posts? Now I admit that we have strayed from the original topic a bit here but dang...
    Maybe if next time you gave me a chance to elaborate instead of accusing me of irrelevancy, you'd have the opportunity to know where I was coming from. Dang.

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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    "Instead of killing one innocent person you just killed 100."
    You do know that the word "you" can be meant generally right? I'm pretty sure from the way that dontworrybehappy replied he knew that I wasn't talking about him directly when I said "you".

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Calm down.

    What I said is relevant to the death penalty, because if even one innocent person is being put to death then the system is flawed and abolition is justified.
    The term "innocent until proven guilty" is not relevant to the death penalty because in order to be sentenced to the DP you must first be proven guilty in a court of law. As such that statement no longer applies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Maybe if next time you gave me a chance to elaborate instead of accusing me of irrelevancy, you'd have the opportunity to know where I was coming from. Dang.
    I was giving you a chance...hence why I used the confused emote.
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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The term "innocent until proven guilty" is not relevant to the death penalty because in order to be sentenced to the DP you must first be proven guilty in a court of law. As such that statement no longer applies.
    *face palm*

    I am trying to say that we have an imperfect justice system. There have already been innocent people put to death. If people are being exonerated now after serving 15 years in jail, then it's proof positive that we shouldn't be using the death penalty. Enough's enough.

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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I think I'd be inclined to trust the professionals on this. The guy has served 30 years in jail and received 20 years of treatment. If the people dealing with him think he's ready for release, what's the issue?

    Castration? What kind of rubbish is that? People released after 30 years for gun crime offences have their trigger fingers amputated? Thieves have their hands cut off?
    You can't rehab a sexual predator.

    If you're wired that way, you're just a genetic mistake.

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    Re: Minn. sex offender seeks to be freed from program

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    *face palm*

    I am trying to say that we have an imperfect justice system. There have already been innocent people put to death. If people are being exonerated now after serving 15 years in jail, then it's proof positive that we shouldn't be using the death penalty. Enough's enough.
    Then say that. Using our crime systems motto after a court has determined guilt is using it incorrectly because it refers to people before the court has given a verdict.

    Now I gave this challenge once before and I'll put it out there again as no one has responded to it yet.

    In todays world of DNA forensics, where there has been DNA evidence, has anyone within the last 5 years that has been sentenced to the DP been found innnocent afterwards?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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