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Thread: Libya to Face War Crimes Probe

  1. #21
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    Re: Libya to Face War Crimes Probe

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Maybe you should read Article 47?
    More reading comprehension fail from the usual suspects. Go on reading your link:

    All the criteria (a – f) must be met, according to the Geneva Convention, for a combatant to be described as a mercenary.

    According to the GC III, a captured soldier must be treated as a lawful combatant and, therefore, as a protected person with prisoner-of-war status until facing a competent tribunal (GC III Art 5). That tribunal, using criteria in APGC77 or some equivalent domestic law, may decide that the soldier is a mercenary. At that juncture, the mercenary soldier becomes an unlawful combatant but still must be "treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial", being still covered by GC IV Art 5. The only possible exception to GC IV Art 5 is when he is a national of the authority imprisoning him, in which case he would not be a mercenary soldier as defined in APGC77 Art 47.d.


    How sad you don't even bother to read something you use as a citation. Typical.

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    Re: Libya to Face War Crimes Probe

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    How sad you don't even bother to read something you use as a citation. Typical.
    Yes, it is sad and typical.

    Art 47. Mercenaries

    1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.
    2. A mercenary is any person who:
    (a) is especially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
    (b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
    (c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
    (d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
    (e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
    (f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.


    Mercenaries fighting in Libya intentionally killing innocent civilians do not fall under any category of Article 4 of the GC.
    http://www.mineaction.org/downloads/...tion%20III.pdf
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Libya to Face War Crimes Probe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Art 47. Mercenaries

    1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.
    2. A mercenary is any person who:
    (a) is especially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
    (b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
    (c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
    (d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
    (e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
    (f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.
    That is correct. But a tribunal or similar competent process must determine based on evidence that a captured individual is, in fact, a mercenary. One can't automatically designate a captured individual as a mercenary in the absence of competent process.

    Once the determination is made, however, then mercenaries do not enjoy the full range of protections that are available to lawful combatants/prisoners of war e.g., mercenaries can be prosecuted for their crimes and, if convicted, sentenced appropriately.


    Mercenaries fighting in Libya intentionally killing innocent civilians do not fall under any category of Article 4 of the GC.
    http://www.mineaction.org/downloads/...tion%20III.pdf[/QUOTE]

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    Re: Libya to Face War Crimes Probe

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    That is correct. But a tribunal or similar competent process must determine based on evidence that a captured individual is, in fact, a mercenary.
    That's true, no doubt. Their status as defined by the GC does need to be determined if and when an organized military force captures a 'mercenary' in Libya.

    Article 5
    The present Convention shall apply to the persons referred to in Article 4 from the time they fall into the power of the enemy and until their final release and repatriation. Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

    The paid killers fighting in Libya, and Islamic jihadis killing innocent people all over the world, are conducting themselves in such a manner that they have forfeit their 'protected person' status in accordance with the GC.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Libya to Face War Crimes Probe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    That's true, no doubt. Their status as defined by the GC does need to be determined if and when an organized military force captures a 'mercenary' in Libya.

    Article 5
    The present Convention shall apply to the persons referred to in Article 4 from the time they fall into the power of the enemy and until their final release and repatriation. Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

    The paid killers fighting in Libya, and Islamic jihadis killing innocent people all over the world, are conducting themselves in such a manner that they have forfeit their 'protected person' status in accordance with the GC.
    We agree about mercenaries. It's the intermediate step of establishing through tribunals or other competent processes that they are mercenaries that needs to be carried out. Once the suspected mercenaries are captured, it would make sense to proceed with the tribunals as quickly as reasonably possible (in Libya, combat needs take precedence right now) and then hold any mercenaries fully accountable for their crimes. Under no circumstances do I believe that the mercenaries should be freed at the end of hostilities. Otherwise, the incentive for people to serve essentially as killers-for-profit would be strengthened.

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