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Thread: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

  1. #41
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Nothing Wisconsin is doing will end an individual’s right to associate with who they choose, or to petition the government.

    In fact, this strengthens it. Individuals will get to decide if they want to associate with the union, ending the public sector monopoly on collective bargaining.
    sure thing. You keep telling yourself that. Whats next? I can see it right now........

    "everyone has natural rights and they exist regardless of the government of law"....

    okay.
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And you clearly don't understand what makes up a "right".


    j-mac
    It seems the Supreme Court does and that pretty much renders you and me impotent on the issue.
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Laws change. laws are not rights.


    j-mac
    until the law changes, you are entitled to the rights they provide
    you confuse legal rights with Constitutional rights
    i look forward to our resident 'labor lawyer' chiming in on this
    please don't disappoint me turtle
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    sure thing. You keep telling yourself that. Whats next? I can see it right now........

    "everyone has natural rights and they exist regardless of the government of law"....

    okay.
    what a sophomoric reply!

    This isn’t a debate on natural rights. From a practical perspective, the only rights that exist are the rights that people have an interest in protecting. Nobody wants to protect the public sector unions “right” to a monopoly. The game is up. Go cry to mommy about it, because the first state to implement this “right” realized the error of their ways and is putting an end to it.

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    thanks. can't wait to see what our resident "labor lawyer" makes of it


    Are you referring to the "labor lawyer" who hates labor?

    I guess that is like a gynecologist who hates woman.
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    what a sophomoric reply!

    This isn’t a debate on natural rights. From a practical perspective, the only rights that exist are the rights that people have an interest in protecting. Nobody wants to protect the public sector unions “right” to a monopoly. The game is up. Go cry to mommy about it, because the first state to implement this “right” realized the error of their ways and is putting an end to it.
    Please leave my mother out of this.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Just as I thought. It really isn't a "right" but rather actually an executive order under JFK that brought us to this point. To claim it as a "right" shows how little liberals actually understand about rights.

    Just remember, what government giveth government taketh away.


    j-mac
    Oh brother. Yet again

    While the United States Constitution's First Amendment identifies the rights to assemble and to petition the government, the text of the First Amendment does not make specific mention of a right to association. Nevertheless, the United States Supreme Court held in NAACP v. Alabama that the freedom of association is an essential part of the Freedom of Speech because, in many cases, people can engage in effective speech only when they join with others.
    That was the US Supreme Court. We all can have an opinion of what the Constitution means. Theirs counts.
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Take it up with the Non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau (think CBO) in WI who indicated that it must be completed by March 16th to meet deadlines and it will take 2 -3 weeks to authorize (putting the deadline to right about now.
    Sorry about the delayed reply. I got logged out and had to re-type my response.

    My larger point is about refinancing in general. Nonetheless, I'll address the specific issue you raised.

    First, I have no issues with the opinion issued by the Legislative Fiscal Bureau's Director Bob Lang. It deals with the opportunity to refinance a single tranche of debt, not refinancing in general. My issue is strictly with the attempts to politicize the issue. Friday wasn't the "drop dead" date. Today isn't either. Neither day is the deadline for refinancing a particular class of debt, much less refinancing in general.

    March 16 is the date when a transfer payment for a single class of GSR-supported debt is required to be made to the bond security and redemption fund (BSRF) under current law. I was talking about the governor's claim that today is the date for action on that debt. There is nothing special about today, just like there was nothing special about last Friday.

    Legislation adopted to execute the refinancing can require that the pre-transfer process be expedited. Hence, even if the law were adopted a week or 10 days from now, there would be sufficient time to wire the funds into the BSRF. Indeed, during the financial crisis, much larger and far more complex financial transactions were negotiated and completed over weekends. Expediting what has historically been a very slow process might actually constitute a beneficial service improvement. Furthermore, if the likelihood of refinancing were high--and a straight refinancing bill would be all but guaranteed to be adopted if the governor and legislature choose to go that route--it would make sense to commence the administrative process in advance. Planning and implementation could be better integrated and that's one situation where certain tasks could be carried out simultaneously when an outcome is for all intents and purposes assured.

    My guess is that the governor doesn't want to handle the refinancing separately for obvious political reasons e.g., he would lose some leverage with respect to other aspects of his agenda. But that's a choice he is making. Choices have consequences. And in the whole scheme of things, refinancing offers savings that are miniscule compared to the large fiscal imbalances that confront the state. It's that larger issue that really needs to be addressed.

    However, back to my larger point about flexibility in refinancing. The March 16 date applies only to one slice of GSR-supported debt. That is the deadline for restructuring GSR-supported debt for which principal payments are due May 1, 2011. Hence, while opportunity to refinance that particular slice of debt might pass, that development would not preclude restructuring other classes of GSR-supported debt e.g., classes for which principal payments are due farther in the future. So, to suggest that the opportunity for refinancing savings would be lost simply is not the case, unless the debt in question were the only class of debt outstanding, and it isn't. My guess is that adoption of a credible budget would lead to bigger refinancing savings (still abnormally low interest rates and reduced credit risk premia).
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 03-01-11 at 11:41 AM.

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    I dunno.. I side with the tax payers here. If the system were set up in such a way that we could eliminate the circle of corruption I would be all for collective bargaining, but WE ALL KNOW it's a racket, so why is everyone continuing to pretend about public sector unions.

    I don't want commie organization by their very existence feeding off the American system any more. Time they all went away, IMO. Privatize it all, teachers, fire, EMT, social work.. Let them eat cake!


    Everywhere privatization has been implemented it has been successful. How many lessons do we need to be hit in the head with over this corrupt system we call public unions?


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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    First, I have no issues with the opinion issued by the Legislative Fiscal Bureau's Director Bob Lang. It deals with the opportunity to refinance a single tranche of debt, not refinancing in general. My issue is strictly with the attempts to politicize the issue. Friday wasn't the "drop dead" date. Today isn't either. Neither day is the deadline for refinancing a particular class of debt, much less refinancing in general.
    I had not heard that it was only a portion of the debt that had to be refinanced by a certain date. What is the percentage of the total debt they hope to refinance that has to be refinanced by 03/16? Do you have a link on this?

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