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Thread: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

  1. #11
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Man....I look at how Chappy, and the liberals in here are crafting this fight in WI, and have to shake my head. I always thought that a conservative majority brings out the true face of liberalism for people to see, but never to this extent.

    The selfishness, greed, and overall contempt for the Wisconsin taxpayers is appalling here. It is, as we have been discussing in the other thread, and remains an act of in your face, vitriolic, childishness going on here by these liberals that could care less if their state goes under or not.

    Imagine if the Tea parties had done the sort of thing that the unions in league with Socialists, and Communists outlets are doing today.



    It would be the lead in all of the news that evening on the networks. Today, the only mention is of those opposing the people with the signs and hate. Take a good look people these are the people teaching your kids.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110219/...ion_protests_1

    These people that are now threatening the safety of the elected officials in WI. Liberals, not conservatives.

    The STATE IS BROKE damnit! What don't you libs get about that? Chappy's little screed from what usually would be little more than bird cage lining the WaPo talking about how the big bad repubs want to take away "workers rights" (Communist in it roots btw) pay teachers some sub par salaries, etc. Lies, lies, lies.

    Collective bargaining is at the base cause of WI's problems with it pensions, and HC in the first damned place. Libs want to hold out and say that "oh, we've agreed to the concessions that Walker presents...." However, what they leave out, and why they are in such a tizzy, is that they would give those concessions alright, but only until the next negotiation when they would take them right back and more.

    What should Walker, and the repubs in the Legislature do? Here is a well thought out solution for them I hope that they adopt.

    The Wisconsin Constitution assigns the state legislature the responsibility of crafting rules and definitions governing how voting is to be conducted, i.e., the mechanics of voting. Article IV, Section 7 empowers 51% of the elected legislators in each house of the Wisconsin legislature to do the following:

    1) Define a quorum to include those legislators who have the ability -- if they choose -- to vote absently, either by electronic means or proxy. This would ensure that no citizens are ever deprived of representation in the state legislature even if their representative is in the hospital or out of town; and/or
    2) Pass a statute (or legislative rules) that any legislator who refuses or fails to represent his constituents by participating in the deliberations of that body for more than 30 days is to be regarded as having resigned his office. Once again, this would ensure that no citizens are ever deprived of representation in the state legislature even if their representative is in the hospital or out of town or just refuses to show up for work.

    Every state permits absentee voting, and more and more are permitting electronic voting from locales other than town halls and school gymnasiums. Extended times for voting (between Day X and Day Y) are also being enacted in a number of states.

    Such a statute or rule for Wisconsin's legislature would state that so long as a member can reach a telephone and is able to record a vote, that member should be counted as part of a quorum. The act of not voting, that is abstaining, has never been counted against a quorum. It's the ability to cast a vote that is all that has mattered.

    American Thinker: Two Solutions to the Wisconsin Stalemate
    Patrick J Buchanan said this in an article:

    "The anti-democratic methods President Obama’s union allies are using in Wisconsin testify to the crucial character of the battle being fought."

    Why Scott Walker Must Win « Patrick J. Buchanan – Official Website

    And he is absolutely right about that.

    j-mac
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  2. #12
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    why should they need to?
    their union has entered into a contract, one with which the state agreed, to pay them a defined compensation for their efforts


    it is this contractural arrangement that the governor is trying to eliminate while insisting he is not

    he is a liar and a republican ... but then i repeat myself
    The state doesn't have the money to pay that contract. There are only two other options: layoffs, or bankruptcy. Walkers oath to the people of Wisconsin takes precedence over the union's contract. The people of Wisconsin are tired of having their tax money laundered and funneled into Democrat political campaigns. Based on that, alone, public employee unions should be illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    The whole world is watching.
    indeed it is. the whole world, i think, is about to watch public sector unions get 1,000 of it's members fired in order to protect it's own political power.

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    why should they need to?
    Their union has entered into a contract, one with which the state agreed, to pay them a defined compensation for their efforts.
    it is this contractural arrangement that the governor is trying to eliminate while insisting he is not. He is a liar and a republican ... but then i repeat myself
    Contracts have expiration dates. If teachers, through their unions, entered into a four-year contract that calls for "X compensation at retirement," that contract can be changed at the end of the four years. As long as, during the 4-year contract, proper contributions were made to the teachers' retirement accounts to fund the promise, the next contract term can change the "X compensation" number. Contracts have end dates. Signing a 4-year contract doesn't obligate anyone for the rest of their lives.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    I think there's a win win here... Walker lays off 1,000 workers - they become the Fed's problem on unemployment... the State cuts their budget and the Unions get to cry victim.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The state doesn't have the money to pay that contract.
    the state participated in the previous contract negotiations and signed the agreement to pay as provided by that agreement. rather than demonize the employees, those that are responsible for an inappropriate outcome are those who negotiated on behalf of the state/taxpayers. but i do not see that in this discussion
    the union has already agreed to make concessions to the structure of the compensation in recognition that the state experienced revenue shortfalls causing it to now be unable to honor the contract it signed

    There are only two other options: layoffs, or bankruptcy. Walkers oath to the people of Wisconsin takes precedence over the union's contract. The people of Wisconsin are tired of having their tax money laundered and funneled into Democrat political campaigns. Based on that, alone, public employee unions should be illegal.
    nope. there is a third option. one which the law says should occur. the state management could enter into negotiations and negotiate new terms based on the new economic realities facing the state
    if the parties reached impasse in those negotiations during that negotiation, an impasse would be declared and an objective impasse panel would split the baby, deciding what the appropriate compensation would be

    that the union has already agreed to make needed concessions and the governor is still pressing forward to deprive the employees of the right to collectively bargain, clearly indicates that the republican objective is to break the unions
    large business would love that ... as they do most bones tossed to them by that party of the rich
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    That the union has already agreed to make needed concessions and the governor is still pressing forward to deprive the employees of the right to collectively bargain, clearly indicates that the republican objective is to break the unions. Large business would love that ... as they do most bones tossed to them by that party of the rich
    Large business has absolutely nothing to do with this fight. This is about public sector unions. I'd also like to point out that, although the unions (at least one of them) have indicated they will concede to the monetary demands the governor has made, when push comes to shove -- when the myriad contracts for the myriad districts go to be changed -- those concessions will immediately become bargaining points. A union saying, "Okay," and then actually changing dozens and dozens of contracts are two very different things.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    There was nothing noteworthy about Friday (the date previously floated regarding the debt restructuring) and there's nothing notable about Tuesday. Debt restructuring involves issuing new debt at a lower interest rate and using the proceeds to pay off a portion of the previously issued debt with a higher interest rate. An interest rate hike or notable increase in rates from the current levels is not imminent. Hence, if the debt were restructured even next month, odds are that Wisconsin would not be materially adversely affected.
    I have heard both WI democrats and republicans agree that this is the drop dead date. This is not an artificial deadline set by Walker. I believe it is due to the time necessary to refinance the debt and passing the bill too late will not generate the savings necessary.

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Best parts of the link:

    Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum | Reuters

    Wisconsin Democrats meanwhile drew fresh support from President Barack Obama and a big union filed a legal complaint against the governor, as a poll suggested he would lose to his Democratic opponent if the 2010 election were held now.

    ...

    Walker's budget proposal brought out an estimated 70,000 protesters on Saturday
    , the biggest protest crowd in the capital since the Vietnam War, and a poll released on Monday suggested that if the 2010 election could be replayed the Wisconsin governor might lose.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the state participated in the previous contract negotiations and signed the agreement to pay as provided by that agreement. rather than demonize the employees, those that are responsible for an inappropriate outcome are those who negotiated on behalf of the state/taxpayers. but i do not see that in this discussion

    Note that you don't see that in the discussion from liberals either. One reason is probably because the Union that negotiated with the very demo leaders at the time to reach such a ridiculous contract were bought and paid for by the very union they were negotiating with.

    the union has already agreed to make concessions to the structure of the compensation in recognition that the state experienced revenue shortfalls causing it to now be unable to honor the contract it signed
    No, not really. They have put out rhetoric that points to that, however by retaining they collective bargaining power for these things, it is a disingenuous proposal.

    nope. there is a third option. one which the law says should occur. the state management could enter into negotiations and negotiate new terms based on the new economic realities facing the state
    if the parties reached impasse in those negotiations during that negotiation, an impasse would be declared and an objective impasse panel would split the baby, deciding what the appropriate compensation would be
    the state doesn't have the money. Period.

    that the union has already agreed to make needed concessions and the governor is still pressing forward to deprive the employees of the right to collectively bargain, clearly indicates that the republican objective is to break the unions
    large business would love that ... as they do most bones tossed to them by that party of the rich
    Here we go with the talking points of the Communist party. The rich this, the rich that.....State employees are not big business employees. that is the difference.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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