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Thread: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Firemen take that oath? I never knew that.
    That oath is taken by every military officer and most political figures.

    Are you saying that the troops that defend this country with their life is any better than a firemen that puts his life on the line???
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The sleeping giant that's been awakened goes by another name: the taxpayer.



    Public sector unions should not have the right to collectively bargain their wages and benefits. Federal employees do not have this right. Neither should state workers.



    These "people" you refer to make up 11.9% of the workers in the United States....with public-sector employees making up over 50% of that total. The may have big mouths, but they most positively are soundly in the minority.
    Well let's see the taxpayer kinda let all that bailout money go to corporations and banks after they were told they would help the American economy.
    How have they helped ?
    This is about American workers who if they keep their jobs will be spending money and paying state tax in Wisconsin.
    Not about where taxes go.
    Taxpayers were not so quick to ask in 2003, till 2008 especialy not many Republicans
    Last edited by presluc; 03-01-11 at 05:35 PM.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The sleeping giant that's been awakened goes by another name: the taxpayer.



    Public sector unions should not have the right to collectively bargain their wages and benefits. Federal employees do not have this right. Neither should state workers.



    These "people" you refer to make up 11.9% of the workers in the United States....with public-sector employees making up over 50% of that total. The may have big mouths, but they most positively are soundly in the minority.
    You are spouting off right-wing talking points without knowing the facts. Most federal employees actually do have collect bargaining rights. Reagan exempted some of them by signing their rights away, but most federal workers retain their bargaining rights.

    And why should public employees not have the right to bargain in the same way private employees do. Why should the government have complete power without giving the people the right to a voice?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    DisneyDude you originally said this -
    No...what you are really saying is that you want government to have complete control....and that they workers should have no voice. Very anti-american values.
    Then I said this - So you agree that privatization is the answer? It allows unions to exist with collective bargaining power, and it ends the corrupt circle of politician pandering to the union, the union giving them money, and the politician giving the wages and benefits once elected? You agree that this is corrupt, correct?

    To which you replied -
    You have very little understanding of our political process if you think what you wrote has any basis in reality. Especially in light of the activist decision in "Citizen's United" that essentially allows corporations to have unlimited ability to contribute to political candidates.
    How does "privatization" "End the corrupt cycle of political pandering"? If anything, it increases it.
    I would much rather individual workers have a voice in political pandering than corporations.....
    Sooo.. Limiting the corporate voice is NOT Anti-American, but limiting the workers voice is?

    Besides the obvious contradiction here, let's look at it another way. In the Public Sector Union scam, the "boss's" speak for their organization by way of union dues. union dues that have no bearing on the actual political aspirations of the union member paying them. Corporations speak with their money much the same way, but the employee is not in ANY WAY beholden to the corporations' particular political aspirations. The employee does not pay into some corporate political action committee, and if they feel as though their employer is barking up the wrong political tree they can leave and work for a competitor. Now, last time I checked, teachers, and public service employee's can't leave their jobs and work for a competitor, because there IS NO competitor. If they make a stand, they leave their career altogether.

    And you tell me I have no understanding of the political process??

    Are you intentionally this naive? Aren't you a lawyer? What kind of argument is this you spout off? Are you suggesting for a second that public sector unions are NOT corrupt.

    cor•rupt[ kə rúpt ]ADJECTIVE
    1. immoral or dishonest: immoral or dishonest, especially as shown by the exploitation of a position of power or trust for personal gain
    The entire system is corrupt, and ONLY a self serving professional liberal wouldn't see it this way.

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    Last edited by Hicup; 03-01-11 at 05:46 PM.
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Sooo.. Limiting the corporate voice is NOT Anti-American, but limiting the workers voice is?
    Absolutely...ding ding ding ding.

    People have rights under our Constitution. Unfortunately right-wing judicial activism has now twisted the Constitution to find that corporations are "persons" under our constitution, even though they cannot be held accountable in the same manner than real people can.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Absolutely...ding ding ding ding.

    People have rights under our Constitution. Unfortunately right-wing judicial activism has now twisted the Constitution to find that corporations are "persons" under our constitution, even though they cannot be held accountable in the same manner than real people can.

    Ok, then you should be able to pull up the section of the Constitution that has the words "collective barganing" in it, or the Bill of Rights for that matter.

    But let me ask you disneydude, would you say that you are an average worker, or an above average worker?


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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You are spouting off right-wing talking points without knowing the facts. Most federal employees actually do have collect bargaining rights. Reagan exempted some of them by signing their rights away, but most federal workers retain their bargaining rights.
    Disney, you are wrong. Federal employees, none of them, can collectively bargain their salaries or their benefits. All you have to do is Google instead of wasting people's time here educating you.

    And why should public employees not have the right to bargain in the same way private employees do. Why should the government have complete power without giving the people the right to a voice?
    I have no problem with public-sector unions as long as they cannot bargain their salary or benefits. Union contributions elect the very poliicians who are sitting across the negotiating table with them. Wrong-wrong-wrong. These negotiators give away the store at taxpayers' expense in order to keep themselves in office. It's incestuous.

    PS: I don't spout talking points. I'm as well-versed on this subject as any DP'r on these boards. You are not.
    Last edited by MaggieD; 03-01-11 at 09:17 PM.
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  8. #118
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    He can be recalled after one year. I'd be surprized if he sticks around that long. I look for him to take the Sara Palin way out.
    Keep hoping for that and the winning lottery ticket. You've got about the same odds...
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Disney, you are wrong. Federal employees, none of them, can collectively bargain their salaries or their benefits. All you have to do is Google instead of wasting people's time here educating you.
    didn't notice disney insisting that federal employees should be entitled to negotiate their compensation. i did see you insist that all public sector employees should not
    members on both sides of the aisle seem not to be aware of that difference
    nor do many realize that that defined benefit retirement packages are a thing of the past in the federal sector (except for those grandfathered in)
    I have no problem with public-sector unions as long as they cannot bargain their salary or benefits. Union contributions elect the very poliicians who are sitting across the negotiating table with them. Wrong-wrong-wrong. These negotiators give away the store at taxpayers' expense in order to keep themselves in office. It's incestuous.
    i can assure you that if the public sector employees held such influence, the shrub would not have been elected - twice
    you are imagining things if you believe the unions get to choose who sits across from them at the bargaining table
    PS: I don't spout talking points. I'm as well-versed on this subject as any DP'r on these boards. You are not.
    i strongly disagree
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    Re: Wisconsin governor gives Democrats ultimatum

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    didn't notice disney insisting that federal employees should be entitled to negotiate their compensation. i did see you insist that all public sector employees should not. Members on both sides of the aisle seem not to be aware of that difference, nor do many realize that that defined benefit retirement packages are a thing of the past in the federal sector (except for those grandfathered in)
    What difference? (bolded sentence) Public-sector defined benefit packages are definitely not a thing of the past. Don't know about Federal...I'm not interested.

    I strongly disagree
    I don't care.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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