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Thread: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

  1. #81
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok, tell us how we kill the enemy and prevent civilian casualties.
    Tell me how killing the enemy is helping at all.

    You've been "Killing the enemy" for almost 10 years now and it doesn't seem to be working.

    You're not fighting a conventional land army, you can kill as many as you want, but I think the greatest challenge you face is, what is victory? Is it when you've brought Taliban and Al Queada numbers to 0?

    Do you think that goal is actually achievable?

    Is it creating a functioning democracy?

    I mean what does "Winning The Afghan War" Actually mean.

    I'm still curious on that one.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Tell me how killing the enemy is helping at all.
    Then, what are we supposed to do? Roll over and just absorb the terrorist attacks?

    You've been "Killing the enemy" for almost 10 years now and it doesn't seem to be working.
    When we can only kill a few at time, it's going to take more time than say, WW2, where we killed tens of thousands at a time.

    You're not fighting a conventional land army, you can kill as many as you want, but I think the greatest challenge you face is, what is victory? Is it when you've brought Taliban and Al Queada numbers to 0?
    Victory is when the terrorist movement becomes as insignificant as the National Socialists.

    Do you think that goal is actually achievable?

    Is it creating a functioning democracy?
    yes, the goal is achievable. It doesn't really matter what kind of government they have, just as long as they leave us alone.

    I mean what does "Winning The Afghan War" Actually mean.

    I'm still curious on that one.
    Defeatism isn't the key to victory. That's for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #83
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Yes, that's the only other possible option!

    Obviously you are not interested in an honest discussion. Continue your trolling elsewhere.
    Anyone who expects us to KNOW the outcome before the mission is unrealistic. Do you think they aren't trying to avoid civilians casualties?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Then, what are we supposed to do? Roll over and just absorb the terrorist attacks?
    Yes because if you left Afghanistan, suddenly the terrorist have a portal into downtown New York...

    When we can only kill a few at time, it's going to take more time than say, WW2, where we killed tens of thousands at a time.
    Stop with the WW2 crap, dude it's not that way at all. WW2 is a different kind of war, fighting a conventional land army and fighting an insurgency are two different things, I don't know how many times I Have to drill that into your head, but it appears I'll have to keep doing it.

    Insurgents hide in the mountains, they hide among people, they are difficult to spot and they strike when they have the advantage, now unless you're intending to destroy mountains, burn whole villages to destroy their cover and slaughter the entire population of Afghanistan to get rid of their source of fighters, you may wanna reconsider your rediculous statement.

    Victory is when the terrorist movement becomes as insignificant as the National Socialists.
    See that's rather interesting because most german soldiers you faced on the battlefield were not national socialists, they were drafted men just like their opponents were. In WW2 what you were actually bringing down was a government, and an entire governmental system which had in the end really subjugated their own people. Remember there was such a thing as the "German Resistance".

    All insurgents you face on the ground are of their orders whether Taliban or Al Queada and various other groups.

    yes, the goal is achievable. It doesn't really matter what kind of government they have, just as long as they leave us alone.
    Wait, you're telling me in no uncertain terms, that you can bring the number of Taliban Fighters and Al Qeada fighters down to 0 forever.

    Defeatism isn't the key to victory. That's for sure.
    Who said anything about Defeat? There is more then the one dimension apdst, come into the light!

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Anyone who expects us to KNOW the outcome before the mission is unrealistic. Do you think they aren't trying to avoid civilians casualties?
    It's in your best interests to do so.

    Not just for "PR".

    But because killing civillians only turns the local populace against you, making it far easier for the Taliban and other groups to operate within them.

    If you were poor and had nothing, and the US Air Force killed your son with a rocket, would your first thought be "Well at least they're trying to give me a corrupt democracy, I should be grateful".

    When you get past "what people should think about us" and accept the reality, you might find that there is more to the world then "we gotta win USA #1 Woooo hoo!"

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Stop with the WW2 crap, dude it's not that way at all. WW2 is a different kind of war, fighting a conventional land army and fighting an insurgency are two different things, I don't know how many times I Have to drill that into your head, but it appears I'll have to keep doing it.
    There's no difference. The principle of warfare, which is to basically destroy the enemy's will to make war, just because you're fighting a different style of enemy.

    Insurgents hide in the mountains, they hide among people, they are difficult to spot and they strike when they have the advantage, now unless you're intending to destroy mountains, burn whole villages to destroy their cover and slaughter the entire population of Afghanistan to get rid of their source of fighters, you may wanna reconsider your rediculous statement.
    We just gotta go in and hunt them down. If they hide among civilians, then it's the terrorists fault that the civilians get killed. You almost sound like you're taking up for the bad guys.



    See that's rather interesting because most german soldiers you faced on the battlefield were not national socialists, they were drafted men just like their opponents were. In WW2 what you were actually bringing down was a government, and an entire governmental system which had in the end really subjugated their own people. Remember there was such a thing as the "German Resistance".

    All insurgents you face on the ground are of their orders whether Taliban or Al Queada and various other groups.
    All German soldiers swore an oath to the fuehrer.



    Wait, you're telling me in no uncertain terms, that you can bring the number of Taliban Fighters and Al Qeada fighters down to 0 forever.
    Nope, I said we should make them as insignificant as the national socialists. There are still national socialists hanging around and they're largely ignored by most people.



    Who said anything about Defeat? There is more then the one dimension apdst, come into the light!
    Tell allllllllllll about it, jet. You never have before, so now's your time to shine, bro.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    It's in your best interests to do so.

    Not just for "PR".

    But because killing civillians only turns the local populace against you, making it far easier for the Taliban and other groups to operate within them.

    If you were poor and had nothing, and the US Air Force killed your son with a rocket, would your first thought be "Well at least they're trying to give me a corrupt democracy, I should be grateful".

    When you get past "what people should think about us" and accept the reality, you might find that there is more to the world then "we gotta win USA #1 Woooo hoo!"
    Then more of them are going to die. That is the reality, vice waging a war where only the bad guys get killed. After enough civilians get killed, they'll realize that it has more to do with terrorists hiding among them, than American ordnance being dropped upon them. If they don't figure that out, then tough **** for'em. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

    If you were poor and had nothing, and the US Air Force killed your son with a rocket, would your first thought be "Well at least they're trying to give me a corrupt democracy, I should be grateful".
    The first thing I would do, is run those scumbag jihadis out of my hood, then see if the airtrikes stop. If they stopped, I would have enough sense to know that if the jihadis stayed away, so would the bombs.
    Last edited by apdst; 03-03-11 at 11:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I told you why, if your too lazy to do it right, I am not wasting any more time with you.
    Weak, real weak.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Weak, real weak.


    You stay classy, you.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Then more of them are going to die. That is the reality, vice waging a war where only the bad guys get killed. After enough civilians get killed, they'll realize that it has more to do with terrorists hiding among them, than American ordnance being dropped upon them. If they don't figure that out, then tough **** for'em. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.



    The first thing I would do, is run those scumbag jihadis out of my hood, then see if the airtrikes stop. If they stopped, I would have enough sense to know that if the jihadis stayed away, so would the bombs.
    If you have a goal, it is often best to seek the best way to achieve that goal. Anything counter productive should be reconsidered. This is just beiong smart. You may not like it, but it is better to be smart than stupid. Our military leaders, as quoted above seem to know this, so perhaps it is worth all of us reconsidering.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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