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Thread: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    "Every Afghan civilian death diminishes our cause"

    U.S. Gen. David Petraeus, the coalition's commander in Afghanistan, issued a rare apology Wednesday for a helicopter strike that killed nine children, hours after Afghan President Hamid Karzai condemned the allies for launching what he called a "ruthless attack." Nine related boys ages 8 to 14 were killed while collecting firewood in a remote part of Kunar province, according to Afghan officials and family members. "I don't care about the apology," Mohammed Bismil, the 20-year-old brother of two boys killed in the strike, said in a telephone interview. "The only option I have is to pick up a Kalashnikov, RPG [rocket-propelled grenade] or a suicide vest to fight."

    General David Petraeus Apologizes for Deaths of Afghan Children - WSJ.com
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I love the fact I present an entire argument, and you'll only address one ****ing sentence.

    And what choice do you have if you're a mother and child and the terrorist has a ****ing gun and threatens to kill your whole family.

    Your thinking is so one dimensional.

    As is your own thinking, according to you .. if we kill a mother and child to get to this terrorist, the father is going to pick up a gun and fight against us correct? Why wouldn't he be just as apt to pick up that gun and fight against the terrorist that was holding his wife and child hostage? Is that terrorist any more or less at fault?

    Then again, why are we even there? If as you say, people will pick up arms and fight against those that killed their family, then this should have been settled years ago, it's not like this killing of civilians just started 7 years ago is it?

    Well I agree, and I think most here agree, civilian casualties are a terrible thing, they can and do happen in war. These wars that are the topic here, are not clear and clean cut wars, the enemy doesn't wear a uniforms, nor are they willing to wage direct open combat against us. We learned in Iraq, that it's going to get dirty, to make any head way it's going to be bloody, now we can either accept that, and do what we have set out to do, or we can get the hell out.

    To Me the reasons we were in Iraq, or why we are in Afghanistan are irrelevant, the simple fact is we are there. I honor the young men and women in our armed forces to much, to place them in a war, set restrictions so that our mission cannot be accomplished. Have the balls to finish our mission, or have the balls to stand down, and withdraw our troops, to let our troops keep dying for nothing is not an option.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Steps are taken to lower the odds of civilian damage, you cannot prevent it when your enemies use them as human shields without informing you first, and they're not going to inform you of that either.
    So you can drop leaflets and call civilian homes and everything, but that cannot assure you that civilians will not die. Terrorists are not simply going to be let off and left untargeted because there will always be a chance of civilian casualties.
    Everyone knows that civilians will always be a casualty of war. What I am discussing and what you are ignoring is the avoidance of operations when excessive civilian damage is probable. International conventions state that some number of combatants among a civilian population does not render those civilians as legitimate targets. This line of thinking is the same reasoning used by the commander of all NATO forces in Afghanistan. Not too long ago he revised the counter-insurgency manual and ordered NATO personnel to not take force when civilians are present (unless in self-defense). One has to wonder why NATO forces are disobeying a directive from a commanding officer (ie - the OP).

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Everyone knows that civilians will always be a casualty of war. What I am discussing and what you are ignoring is the avoidance of operations when excessive civilian damage is probable. International conventions state that some number of combatants among a civilian population does not render those civilians as legitimate targets. This line of thinking is the same reasoning used by the commander of all NATO forces in Afghanistan. Not too long ago he revised the counter-insurgency manual and ordered NATO personnel to not take force when civilians are present (unless in self-defense). One has to wonder why NATO forces are disobeying a directive from a commanding officer (ie - the OP).
    One first has to wonder what makes you believe that the ones who have ordered the attack have known that there were civilians in the targeted area?
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    One first has to wonder what makes you believe that the ones who have ordered the attack have known that there were civilians in the targeted area?
    ... That is the point I am making. The event in question is related to air strikes on a small village(s) in Ghaziabad. In what way did NATO make sure that there were no civilians close enough to the air strikes? If the OP is true (or even slightly exaggerated), then there is no possible way they could have said there were no civilians present before committing to operations.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Or, how about you don't commit to an operation when the damage to the civlian population is more excessive than the direct military advantage gained? There's this thing called the Laws of War that separates us from the enemy quite distinctly.
    I know, let's pull out althogether and let al Qaeda and the Taliban run the show.
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I know, let's pull out althogether and let al Qaeda and the Taliban run the show.
    Yes, that's the only other possible option!

    Obviously you are not interested in an honest discussion. Continue your trolling elsewhere.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not having any trouble following it. Just looking for excuses are you?


    I told you why, if your too lazy to do it right, I am not wasting any more time with you.
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    ... That is the point I am making. The event in question is related to air strikes on a small village(s) in Ghaziabad. In what way did NATO make sure that there were no civilians close enough to the air strikes? If the OP is true (or even slightly exaggerated), then there is no possible way they could have said there were no civilians present before committing to operations.
    What are they supposed to do, go have a look around and then launch the airstrike?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    Yes, that's the only other possible option!

    Obviously you are not interested in an honest discussion. Continue your trolling elsewhere.
    Ok, tell us how we kill the enemy and prevent civilian casualties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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