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Thread: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    During combat operations, civilians will die.
    civilian casualties are unfortunately always going to be a reality of war.

    do you believe the civilian casualties would be as high if the military planners and the political elite put the same value upon Afghan civilian lives as they would if it were american lives?

    or do you actually believe they place the same value on their lives?
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    civilian casualties are unfortunately always going to be a reality of war.

    do you believe the civilian casualties would be as high if the military planners and the political elite put the same value upon Afghan civilian lives as they would if it were american lives?

    or do you actually believe they place the same value on their lives?
    I believe that civilians casualties wouldn't be as high, if the terrorists weren't using them as human shields. The objective is to kill the enemy. If they're using civilians as cover and a high civilian body count results, then there's not much we can do about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I believe that civilians casualties wouldn't be as high, if the terrorists weren't using them as human shields. The objective is to kill the enemy. If they're using civilians as cover and a high civilian body count results, then there's not much we can do about that.
    You do realise that the more civillians you kill, the more insurgents you create...

    You destroy a house to kill an insurgent, you kill not only the insurgent, but also a mother and her child while the father was out working...

    And let me tell you something apdst, there is nothing more dangerous in this world then a man with nothing to lose.

    Now that's just an example, but villages in the middle east and afghanistan are very closely knit communities, everyone knows eachother, even collateral damage enrages the local population and makes them more likely to support your enemy.

    It's all a very difficult balancing act, and not JUST about avoiding civillian casulties to "look good".

    These people don't have much, and therefore it doesn't take much for them to pick up a gun and fight you.

    But your one dimensional "well this is how we did it in world war 2" approach could work I guess... if you were fighting in WW2

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Actually I have already explained. And no, we actually knew the wmds were not a real concern.
    Bull****.

    If The Bush Administration Lied About WMD, So Did These People -- Version 3.0 - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)


    Everyone believed he had WMD's, Hussein bluffed the world with it.


    Drinking the koolaid doesn't make the argument valid.


    Disagreeing with any of your numerous asinine positions does not make one a kool aid drinker.



    And we don't have heaven in either country now, which still have corruption and torture. So, the betterment has been not only mild with no future certainty, but expensive. When the worst of it was happening, we did nothing. We waited until it was mostly over, and then added injury to injury. Not something anyone would thank us for, or that we should feel too good about.
    The worst of it happened under Clinton, no? Who put in a policy of "regieme change" but did little else. What's your point?


    So, no, as realted to purpose, we create more than we kill when we kill civilians.

    I haven't denied that, What I have stated is I think the ammount is overstated. I think its something like .003 per 1000 per civillian killed.
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    [QUOTE=ReverendHellh0und;1059321032]That's funny, you use a source that uses deception to defend deception. That's funny stuff.




    The worst of it happened under Clinton, no? Who put in a policy of "regieme change" but did little else. What's your point?
    He did not bring war to those poor people, displacing millions, killing about 100,000, and helping Iran out in the region.




    I haven't denied that, What I have stated is I think the ammount is overstated. I think its something like .003 per 1000 per civillian killed.
    I don't know of anyone who's quantified it, but I'd be interested in how you reeached your numbers.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    You do realise that the more civillians you kill, the more insurgents you create...

    You destroy a house to kill an insurgent, you kill not only the insurgent, but also a mother and her child while the father was out working...

    And let me tell you something apdst, there is nothing more dangerous in this world then a man with nothing to lose.

    Now that's just an example, but villages in the middle east and afghanistan are very closely knit communities, everyone knows eachother, even collateral damage enrages the local population and makes them more likely to support your enemy.

    It's all a very difficult balancing act, and not JUST about avoiding civillian casulties to "look good".

    These people don't have much, and therefore it doesn't take much for them to pick up a gun and fight you.

    But your one dimensional "well this is how we did it in world war 2" approach could work I guess... if you were fighting in WW2
    If they're lending sanctuary to terrorists, then they're already sympathetic to their cause. At the end of the day, what difference is it going to make?

    The only other option is to admit defeat and let the terrorists do what they want. Is that what you would have us do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If they're lending sanctuary to terrorists, then they're already sympathetic to their cause. At the end of the day, what difference is it going to make?

    The only other option is to admit defeat and let the terrorists do what they want. Is that what you would have us do?
    I love the fact I present an entire argument, and you'll only address one ****ing sentence.

    And what choice do you have if you're a mother and child and the terrorist has a ****ing gun and threatens to kill your whole family.

    Your thinking is so one dimensional.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    [That's funny, you use a source that uses deception to defend deception. That's funny stuff.

    They list quotes and make little to no commentary on it. your dismissal of this link of quotes, is a failure on your part, not mine. I knew you would not address it as an intellectual. Thank you for not disapointing.



    He did not bring war to those poor people, displacing millions, killing about 100,000, and helping Iran out in the region.

    you are right, instead of iraqis killing each other to a tune of 100k, (there you go again infering US troops killed 100k civillians, abhorrent and disrespectful, but expected of you), Hussein killed what 400k of his own people, rape rooms, etc...

    I am sorry you are sad to see hussein go.



    I don't know of anyone who's quantified it, but I'd be interested in how you reeached your numbers.


    from here:

    The Effect of Civilian Casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq

    however I can not post a copy due to its pay for access nature, but it tries to bolster your argument, but reading it, one comes to realize its far less than someone of your ilk wishes it would be.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    They list quotes and make little to no commentary on it. your dismissal of this link of quotes, is a failure on your part, not mine. I knew you would not address it as an intellectual. Thank you for not disapointing.
    I know, and we've gone through the out of context quotes before. Do we really have to do it again? Seriously?


    you are right, instead of iraqis killing each other to a tune of 100k, (there you go again infering US troops killed 100k civillians, abhorrent and disrespectful, but expected of you), Hussein killed what 400k of his own people, rape rooms, etc...

    I am sorry you are sad to see hussein go.
    Again, you miss the point. When Saddam was killing, we did nothing. So, we wait until he's killed all he was going to kill, doing nothing to stop him, and when it is over, we bring war to add another 100,000, adding as I said, injury to injury.

    Now I know you have low nationesteem, and make leaps, but the fact is, like it or not, we brought the war and the sitatuation that led to these deaths. We can't plead no role in it.





    from here:

    The Effect of Civilian Casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq

    however I can not post a copy due to its pay for access nature, but it tries to bolster your argument, but reading it, one comes to realize its far less than someone of your ilk wishes it would be.
    It sounds like an interesting read, but I yet see any reason to accept it. Not having evidence is not the same as having evidence that supports the point. I suspect we really can't be sure. And there focus is a little limited. We do not know the longer term effects. I remember a CIA report a few years ago that suggested the training our enemies received in Iraq would be used to kill people for decades.

    However, i repeat, it sound like an interesting read.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I know, and we've gone through the out of context quotes before. Do we really have to do it again? Seriously?

    We have? That's a lie.



    Again, you miss the point. When Saddam was killing, we did nothing. So, we wait until he's killed all he was going to kill, doing nothing to stop him, and when it is over, we bring war to add another 100,000, adding as I said, injury to injury.

    I was all ready to go back in 91, bush I said no because the UN said no, the UN created sanctions, which created UNSCAM, and gave hussein lattitude to kill 400k of his own people. I find the excuse of not acting previous to be a deterent to acting later not a very insightful position to hold.


    Now I know you have low nationesteem, and make leaps, but the fact is, like it or not, we brought the war and the sitatuation that led to these deaths. We can't plead no role in it.
    nor can we directly blame it on the US soldier as you infer. It's dishonest and a lie.


    It sounds like an interesting read, but I yet see any reason to accept it. Not having evidence is not the same as having evidence that supports the point. I suspect we really can't be sure. And there focus is a little limited. We do not know the longer term effects. I remember a CIA report a few years ago that suggested the training our enemies received in Iraq would be used to kill people for decades.

    However, i repeat, it sound like an interesting read.

    the boo radley shuffle is in full swing. I give you the number, and the study, and you deflect and go with your speculation instead. I can't help the close minded ideologue.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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