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Thread: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    You understand little about combat, war, etc. Civillian casualties are a reality of war, and always will be. Doing nothing emboldens the enemy as seen on 911.
    You really like to tell people what they don't understand. You're almost always wrong, but I sense it must make you feel better somehow.

    Anyway, this isn't a traditional war. Not like WWII, and while more like VN, not quite like that either. You have to know what you're fighting, understand your enemy, and plan to accomplish a mission. Killing civilians in this case defeats our purpose, and in the end, leaves us worse off than had we not invaded in the first place.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm sorry, outside of actually catching bin Laden or attempting to forestall the terrorist attacks right before they happened, what is it we were supposed to have done to prevent 9/11?
    Most those who testified durng the 9/11 commission said there was no one we could have killed that would have prevented it. No country we could have incvaded that would have prevented. Mindless war simply doesn't make us one bit safer. Nothing in either Afghanistan or Iraq is making us any safer.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You really like to tell people what they don't understand. You're almost always wrong, but I sense it must make you feel better somehow.
    Oh boo, please tell me about war and combat, i'm all ears...... Tell me how i am wrong....

    Accidental killing of civillians has little effect overall on the general populace of a repressed regieme. If you are up for it, i'll give you some books to read.




    Anyway, this isn't a traditional war. Not like WWII, and while more like VN, not quite like that either. You have to know what you're fighting, understand your enemy, and plan to accomplish a mission. Killing civilians in this case defeats our purpose, and in the end, leaves us worse off than had we not invaded in the first place.

    It does really? Not invading left us with UNSCAM, unkown wmd, sanctions, it left iraqis with rape rooms, tourture, murder and despotism in all itd glory. So worse off?


    I disagree...
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Most those who testified durng the 9/11 commission said there was no one we could have killed that would have prevented it. No country we could have incvaded that would have prevented. Mindless war simply doesn't make us one bit safer. Nothing in either Afghanistan or Iraq is making us any safer.
    I think Reverend makes a good point when he points out the failure of the intelligence community. But I agree that invading any particular country would not have prevented anything a small group of men had already set their minds on doing.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Oh boo, please tell me about war and combat, i'm all ears...... Tell me how i am wrong....

    Accidental killing of civillians has little effect overall on the general populace of a repressed regieme. If you are up for it, i'll give you some books to read.






    It does really? Not invading left us with UNSCAM, unkown wmd, sanctions, it left iraqis with rape rooms, tourture, murder and despotism in all itd glory. So worse off?


    I disagree...
    Actually I have already explained. And no, we actually knew the wmds were not a real concern. Drinking the koolaid doesn't make the argument valid. And we don't have heaven in either country now, which still have corruption and torture. So, the betterment has been not only mild with no future certainty, but expensive. When the worst of it was happening, we did nothing. We waited until it was mostly over, and then added injury to injury. Not something anyone would thank us for, or that we should feel too good about.

    So, no, as realted to purpose, we create more than we kill when we kill civilians.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think Reverend makes a good point when he points out the failure of the intelligence community. But I agree that invading any particular country would not have prevented anything a small group of men had already set their minds on doing.
    I don't want to be in a position to defend the intelligence community, but the fact is they had the same intel Clinton had, which led to a different conclusion. To get where Bush got, you had to use questionable intel that was highly doubted by the CIA oppertives involved. Curveball was doubted from the beginning. al Libibi's testimoney was coersed, and doubted. We had evidence to the contrary on much of the rest, and we knew most wmds had been destoryed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If the terrorists weren't using civilians as human shields, there wouldn't be so many civilian casualties. Wanna blame someone? Blame the terrorists.
    Or we could blame you guys for bombing the ****e out of civilians. That sounds a bit more realistic.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Actually I have already explained. And no, we actually knew the wmds were not a real concern. Drinking the koolaid doesn't make the argument valid. And we don't have heaven in either country now, which still have corruption and torture. So, the betterment has been not only mild with no future certainty, but expensive. When the worst of it was happening, we did nothing. We waited until it was mostly over, and then added injury to injury. Not something anyone would thank us for, or that we should feel too good about.

    So, no, as realted to purpose, we create more than we kill when we kill civilians.
    Yeah, the wars are going badly. They tried to cover up the latest evidence of torture before the inspectors could check out the allegations.

    Iraq operating 'secret prison': Human Rights Watch
    Iraq operating 'secret prison': Human Rights Watch - Yahoo! News

    Pakistan has "disastrous year" for human rights in 2010: HRW
    Pakistan has disastrous year for human rights in 2010: HRW | Reuters

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There are also laws that prohibit using non-combatants as human shields.
    Which is why I said the Laws of War are what separates us from extremists... Us not honoring it makes us no better than they are.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Usually there is no knowledge or certainty as to whether civilians will be harmed or not as a result of the targeting of terrorists and other militants. The blame in such cases is to be placed on those who have placed them in that position, using them as human shields and using their corpses to promote their radical cause. Western forces have no interest to get civilians killed, it's not like they see civilians and think "hey let's kill those innocent bastards". They target militants. You simply cannot assure that civilians will never die when targeting Islamic terrorists.
    There is no certainty, but to suggest that there is "no knowledge" of civilian damage when planning/commencing operations is just flat out wrong. Steps are always taken to prevent civilian damage by civilized armies. However, there is no cause to take action when excessive civilian damage is not only possible, but probable.

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