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Thread: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

  1. #161
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    What's a neocon to you?

    BTW, I served in the USAF from '83-'89.
    Signatories of the PNAC document.

    Those who subscribe the doctrine of pre-emptive war.

    I would say Hillary is a NeoCon as well becuase she signed on to
    vote for Iraq and the Patriot Act.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, that just makes them the fonder, not those fighting. And in fact, it is nothing by any measure, as these are people not associated with any terrorist group before we invaded Iraq. This means we did nothing to organizations as they were prior to invasion. We only took on new members, newbees, who would not have been otherwised part of the calulation.
    Jihadis terrorist groups have been recruiting ‘newbees’ for some decades now Boo. It’s not actually news al-Qaeda was looking for recruits as suicide bombers in Iraq. Suicide bombers are a one shot deal and have to be replaced. Al-Qaeda imported thousands of foreign jihadis into Iraq. So did Syria and Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    …..And 1000 fighters as compared to 100,000 civilians is nothing.
    Coalition troops did not kill 100,000(?) Iraqi’s. IF you want to know who did Iraqbodycount.net keeps a count of the Iraqi “civilians” that have been killed and who killed them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And I know the numbers well.
    That hardly seems likely. If that was true we wouldn’t be having this discussion about foreign jihadis in Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, the WS is not a credible source. They got much wrong concerning Iraq. And they allowed inaccurate information, mostly from Hayes as I remember, to be printed with no consequences. This makes them a poor source. It isn't about being critical of Bush, or even bais, but about accuracy. I don't know what it takes to get that through the thinking on your side of the isle. Accuracy matters.
    Then I’ll be looking forward to future discussions when I use WS articles to make my points and refute yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    and he did not invest heavily in Iraq. He wanted us hurt there, and that happened the second we invaded. Everything else, from his POV was gravy.
    The leader of AQ and his lieutenants’ repeatedly stated Iraq was a central front in their war. They stated so publically and sent thousands of jihadis to Iraq. What other proof is needed for you to understand that fact? I can post links to information on captured messages between AQI and OBL further proving this point but I’m beginning to believe that would make no difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Actually they are, no matter their reasoning. We don't bring war there, this doesn't happen. You can't be reckless and not man up and be responsible. When and if Iraq is ever a strong and peaceful nation it will eb because Iraqis made it so. Our arrogance was in thinking we could make any country something we want them to be. And then to want prasie for for bringing war, death and misery to them
    That’s your opinion and you’re welcome to it. Call me crazy if you will, but I’d rather blame the people who deliberately killed the Iraqi civilians. Thousands of foreign fighters and suicide bombers entered Iraq before and after OIF and deliberately killed scores of Iraqi civilians to start a civil war. They were rejected by the Iraqi people because of the brutality of their actions. AQI has been soundly defeated. That's not something to put on a recruiting poster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    and all after we waited until Saddam was done with his worse.
    I’ll let you have that one back. Call it a mulligan.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

  3. #163
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    So where are all these terrorists we're supposed to be fighting?

    All I ever see or read about is how the Afghan and Pakistan people are outraged over civillian casualties.

    Is this a real enemy, or is this about gas pipelines?

    I think the war on terror is bunk.

    Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation
    08:26, February 28, 2011

    Source: Xinhua

    "The fact finding delegation of Afghan government has confirmed that NATO-led troops during operations against militants in the eastern Kunar province had killed 65 civilians including women and children, a statement released by Presidential Palace on Sunday said."

    'Headed by Shahzada Masoud the advisor to president the delegation presented its report at the meeting of National Security Council with President Hamid Karzai on the chair held in Presidential Palace."

    Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation
    You know what struck me - how odd it was that the country with the world's highest infant mortality rate (165/1000) is citing, with serious heaft, these numbers given.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Signatories of the PNAC document.

    Those who subscribe the doctrine of pre-emptive war.

    I would say Hillary is a NeoCon as well becuase she signed on to
    vote for Iraq and the Patriot Act.
    Thanks for an honest answer.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

  5. #165
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Jihadis terrorist groups have been recruiting ‘newbees’ for some decades now Boo. It’s not actually news al-Qaeda was looking for recruits as suicide bombers in Iraq. Suicide bombers are a one shot deal and have to be replaced. Al-Qaeda imported thousands of foreign jihadis into Iraq. So did Syria and Iran.
    Not wise to help them though. Murders have been happening since time began as well, but we wouldn't want to help them out. Iraq gave them inroads to new members, helped them.

    Coalition troops did not kill 100,000(?) Iraqi’s. IF you want to know who did Iraqbodycount.net keeps a count of the Iraqi “civilians” that have been killed and who killed them.
    That strawman you have going on there is kind of silly. Try addressing what is actually being argued.

    That hardly seems likely. If that was true we wouldn’t be having this discussion about foreign jihadis in Iraq.
    I guess you're wrong about that as well.


    Then I’ll be looking forward to future discussions when I use WS articles to make my points and refute yours.
    Not credibile is not credible. It doesn't matter who uses crap, it's still crap.


    The leader of AQ and his lieutenants’ repeatedly stated Iraq was a central front in their war. They stated so publically and sent thousands of jihadis to Iraq. What other proof is needed for you to understand that fact? I can post links to information on captured messages between AQI and OBL further proving this point but I’m beginning to believe that would make no difference.
    Again, why believe them? It's propaganda and nothing more. Try looking at actions instead. And did send anyone. Keep that in mind, they didn't send. That accepted those who came, people who did not belong to their organization.

    That’s your opinion and you’re welcome to it. Call me crazy if you will, but I’d rather blame the people who deliberately killed the Iraqi civilians. Thousands of foreign fighters and suicide bombers entered Iraq before and after OIF and deliberately killed scores of Iraqi civilians to start a civil war. They were rejected by the Iraqi people because of the brutality of their actions. AQI has been soundly defeated. That's not something to put on a recruiting poster.
    I know, you're unwilling to accept responsibility. However, when you bring needless war to a country, you can't then pretend you had no role in the consequences of that war. And no, al Qaeda has not been defeated. The last estimate I saw said they were as strong today as they were pre 9/11. Iraq had no effect on them at all. Remember, al Qaeda in Iraq was Iraqis. It was not al Qaeda proper.


    I’ll let you have that one back. Call it a mulligan.
    Why? What was said is exactly true. When Saddam was doing his killing, we did nothing. When he had mostly stopped, we brough war which added another 100,000 on top of the total. We added injury to injury.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #166
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    I don't want you to take this thread as personal critique if you're in the military. It begs an answer is a response from the policy makers, Obama, (NeoCon in liberal clothing) does this not prove its bad policy? The sacrifice too great for the soldiers as well as civillians?

    Anyway, here is a video about the media and the war on terror ...
    Called "the Great Conspiracy" that video is top flight, no one should miss it. Its about an hour long, but great!
    Last edited by Kane; 03-08-11 at 08:55 PM.

  7. #167
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not wise to help them though. Murders have been happening since time began as well, but we wouldn't want to help them out. Iraq gave them inroads to new members, helped them.
    Yeah, we sure gave them a recruiting bonanza:

    Sign here if you want to kill other Muslims and die for a lost cause

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That strawman you have going on there is kind of silly. Try addressing what is actually being argued.
    Straw man my a**. Who was deliberately targeting innocent civilians is exactly what’s being discussed here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I guess you're wrong about that as well.
    You knew all about thousands of jihadis flooding into Iraq before and after OIF. Of course you did. That's why you've been arguing they didn't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, why believe them?
    Because OBL backed up his “propaganda” with the lives of thousands of his jihadis and made public statements that Iraq was the focus of AQ. That’s why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Remember, al Qaeda in Iraq was Iraqis. It was not al Qaeda proper.
    That would be news to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and OBL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Why? What was said is exactly true. When Saddam was doing his killing, we did nothing. When he had mostly stopped, we brough war which added another 100,000 on top of the total. We added injury to injury.
    What could possibly cause you to believe something this ridiculous is anyone’s guess.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

  8. #168
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Yeah, we sure gave them a recruiting bonanza:

    Sign here if you want to kill other Muslims and die for a lost cause
    I believe if you look at the CIA assessment, they too say that's just what we gave them.


    Straw man my a**. Who was deliberately targeting innocent civilians is exactly what’s being discussed here.
    No, that is not all we're discussing. Don't invade, and that doesn't happen. Again, taking responsibility for your actions used to be a conservative core value.

    You knew all about thousands of jihadis flooding into Iraq before and after OIF. Of course you did. That's why you've been arguing they didn't exist.
    I know the numbers, yes. They totaled 5% of the total force we were fighting. Overwhelming numbers those are I tells ya!

    Because OBL backed up his “propaganda” with the lives of thousands of his jihadis and made public statements that Iraq was the focus of AQ. That’s why.
    No, he didn't. He made almost no investment at all. He let new recruits come and do as they would. He did not invest heavily in Iraq. There was never a need for him to, which is why he's nearly as strong today as he was pre 9/11.

    That would be news to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and OBL.
    No, it wouldn't. They are no as predisposed to believe the **** you accept so readily.

    What could possibly cause you to believe something this ridiculous is anyone’s guess.
    Reality. That's what cause me to say this. Something I posted years ago:

    Brutal as Saddam Hussein’s reign had been, the scope of the Iraqi government’s killing in March 2003 was not of the exceptional and dire magnitude that would justify humanitarian intervention.

    (snip)

    Conclusion

    sum, the invasion of Iraq failed to meet the test for a humanitarian intervention. Most important, the killing in Iraq at the time was not of the exceptional nature that would justify such intervention. In addition, intervention was not the last reasonable option to stop Iraqi atrocities. Intervention was not motivated primarily by humanitarian concerns. It was not conducted in a way that maximized compliance with international humanitarian law. It was not approved by the Security Council. And while at the time it was launched it was reasonable to believe that the Iraqi people would be better off, it was not designed or carried out with the needs of Iraqis foremost in mind.

    http://www.hrw.org/legacy/wr2k4/3.htmIn

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #169
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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Brutal as Saddam Hussein’s reign had been, the scope of the Iraqi government’s killing in March 2003 was not of the exceptional and dire magnitude that would justify humanitarian intervention.
    See, Saddam wasn't so bad folks. He just had to get a little killing out of his system but then he settled down.

    So what if Iraqis were still starving and being terroized by his henchmen? Who cares if their national resources were being stolen.

    Saddam's killings are way down these days folks!! Only a few hundred this month!! Nothing to see here!! Just move along!!
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Afghan delegation confirms killing 65 civilians killed by NATO during operation

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If the terrorists weren't using civilians as human shields, there wouldn't be so many civilian casualties. Wanna blame someone? Blame the terrorists.
    This x 1000

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