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Thread: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Ok, what if a same sex couple sues for whichever federal benefits you're referring to? If fed government rolls over than isn't that the same thing as not enforcing the law? Actually, Redress, I don't understand why this distinction matters to you. If Obama had said, "I don't believe in this law so I'm not going to enforce it, wouldn't your position be exactly the same as it is now?
    Then it would go through the same court process the other challenges are going through.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Not enforcing DOMA from a federal standpoint would be allowing same sex marriages the same federal benefits as opposite sex married couples. If you see a rush of opposite sex married couples applying for and recieving joint tax returns and other such federal benefits, then you would be right. Want to bet whether that happens Monday? It will not, because DOMA is still in effect.
    Actually, it just allows petitions to be brought against it in the Courts and says the government won't defend it as being right. This allows the Supreme Court to decide.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by toomuchtime_ View Post
    Is it? In July, a federal district court in Boston ruled in two separate cases section 3 of DOMA violated the fifth and tenth amendments to the constitution, and that it could no longer be cited as a basis for denying spousal benefits to legally married same sex couples. Enforcement has been delayed because the DOJ filed an appeal of the ruling, but Holder sent a latter to the US Circuit Court in Boston withdrawing the appeal, so section 3 of DOMA is no longer in effect.




    Defense of Marriage Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Currently there is a stay or hold on this until the appeal is done. Have you read the actual rulings? I am not a lawyer but managed to get through both and it is facinating reading.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Actually, it just allows petitions to be brought against it in the Courts and says the government won't defend it as being right. This allows the Supreme Court to decide.
    Not exactly as I understand it. Next step is that the House of Representatives has a certrain amount of time to decide if they want to defend it. The court case will still go forward on the same timeline, which means it is at the first appeal step, I forget which court.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Not exactly as I understand it. Next step is that the House of Representatives has a certrain amount of time to decide if they want to defend it. The court case will still go forward on the same timeline, which means it is at the first appeal step, I forget which court.
    If it's law, I think your understanding is in error. Please provide the link for your information, as I'd love to read it.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    If it's law, I think your understanding is in error. Please provide the link for your information, as I'd love to read it.
    It is a blog, but seems pretty accurate from what I can see. I can try for better in a bit: Box Turtle Bulletin DOMA: recap, summary, and analysis

    The law remains on the books, the Administration will continue to administer the law, and gay couples have no more federal recognition than two random roommates living in a dorm.

    However, it is a very short time before this could all change. The House of Representatives has a small window in which to decide whether to defend DOMA in court. Should they fail to do so, then in March the courts will be presented with a motion for summary judgment (a request for a trial-less determination) which argues that DOMA Section 3 is unconstitutional, and in response the DOJ will say, I got nothing.

    Presented with only one side, it is extremely probable that the judges will find for the plaintiffs and order the federal government to recognize their marriages. This could be limited to specific circumstances for individual plaintiffs or applied broadly against the United States and applicable to all same-sex marriages. However, without appeal to the US Supreme Court, then these decisions will only apply to same-sex married couples in Second Circuit states (Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire, and New York).
    I forgot about the motion for summary jedgement, which I suspect will be denied anyway.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It is a blog, but seems pretty accurate from what I can see. I can try for better in a bit: Box Turtle Bulletin DOMA: recap, summary, and analysis



    I forgot about the motion for summary jedgement, which I suspect will be denied anyway.
    No it's an opinion. I want something with facts. Because there are NOT adjustments added to current laws in our nation by the House. The House can start its own resolution to see if it wants to start a new law, but the DOMA is on its own course now, with any decisions as to constitutionality awaiting it in the Supreme Court. It's why Bush put is under scrutiny by the federal attorneys. He knew if it reached the Supreme Court, it would not stand the test of the constitution on rights to American citizens. Republicans created this.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    No it's an opinion. I want something with facts. Because there are NOT adjustments added to current laws in our nation by the House. The House can start its own resolution to see if it wants to start a new law, but the DOMA is on its own course now, with any decisions as to constitutionality awaiting it in the Supreme Court. It's why Bush put is under scrutiny by the federal attorneys. He knew if it reached the Supreme Court, it would not stand the test of the constitution on rights to American citizens. Republicans created this.
    You are dismissing my documentation as "not facts", but are not sourcing anything you claim. You are making alot ofstatements as fact, but have offered less to back them up than I have. Also note that I am continuing for about another 15 minutes to look for a better source...after that I got stuff to do for a couple hours.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are dismissing my documentation as "not facts", but are not sourcing anything you claim. You are making alot ofstatements as fact, but have offered less to back them up than I have. Also note that I am continuing for about another 15 minutes to look for a better source...after that I got stuff to do for a couple hours.
    I see. My bad. Yes, it does talk about Congress defending it in COURT. This still remains a court issue. Congress can't change it as it is a law.

    However, it is a very short time before this could all change. The House of Representatives has a small window in which to decide whether to defend DOMA in court. Should they fail to do so, then in March the courts will be presented with a motion for summary judgment (a request for a trial-less determination) which argues that DOMA Section 3 is unconstitutional, and in response the DOJ will say, “I got nothing.”
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    I see. My bad. Yes, it does talk about Congress defending it in COURT. This still remains a court issue. Congress can't change it as it is a law.
    Yes. As I read it, the next step; in court will be a motion of summary judgement, which I suspect will be reviewd, and determining who has standing to defend the law. The information out there is highly contradictory at the momemt, so from the last fewe minutes of reading I am even more unsure than less so.

    Interesting reading:

    Culhane: Legal analysis of Obama Administration decision to stop defending DOMA | News Story on 365gay.com
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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