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Thread: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

  1. #181
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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    tell that to the guys who have actually been on the front lines in a combat situation
    I have and will continue to do so. Some of them have even agreed. you might remember it was actually people in the military who complained from the begining.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Don't start that nonsense. Waterboarding has always been considered torture, but the US. We can go down that road again, siting all the same sources, where we've prosecuted people, including our own people for waterbaording. You can then pretend this was a different procedure, noting meaningless differences. I can point that out.

    It's all rather pointless. It was torture. And no torturing of the language will change that.
    Says Who? You? So the military uses torture on our troops? Really? Its a simple thing....just produce the physical evidence of any one POW that has been documented as being physically harmed by this procedure. Hell, no mental status cannot be considered as torture because of the Subjective Nature of that supposed Science (psychology, which in reality is not a science but a philosophy as there is no objective method to determine the facts of any position taken by the patient).....anyone can say they have been mentally tortured, its torture to me to see a pompous ass liberal attempt to make the charge of torture stick when he/she cannot produce any objective proof thereof.
    Last edited by Walter; 02-25-11 at 05:15 PM.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Subjective? It is illegal under international law. We signed a UN agreement saying that we won't torture, and the UN declared waterboarding torture. We, as a nation, have prosecuted people for waterboarding. Which, by the way, I believe in the justice system they call that a precedent.

    If we have prosecuted people for waterboarding, don't you think that means the US believes waterboarding is illegal?
    The United States has signed no Agreement with any international terrorist organization that fights under no banner that is part of any compact agreement among STATES. Once again, SUBJECTIVE rhetoric is applied in an attempt to deflect away from the OBJECTIVE evidence. Its simple....produce one injured pow that has been subjected to this...(wink, wink, TORTURE), just one. You would think that if someone is being tortured there would be evidence of that torture, especially when that interrogation method was used under the supervision of a PHYSICIAN.

    Why do you not produce the OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that confirms the United States has prosecuted anyone for the sole purpose of defining waterboarding as torture. Produce the evidence where the US has prosecuted anyone for the sole purpose of using this interrogation method.
    Last edited by Walter; 02-25-11 at 05:12 PM.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    So why are you on a debate board? To give hand jobs to other conservatives and pat each other on the back? If you don't like debating, don't debate. It's that easy.

    Also, your hatred of liberalism is a bit scary. Might want to get yourself checked out at a shrink.
    I've debated the issue umpteen million times. At this juncture of my "debating" career, I rpefer to just poke fun at those that are sitting in the fox holes..


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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Bush didn't declare that laws were unconstitutional and then enforce them like Obama is doing, he did the opposite. He never declared them unconstitutional but simply didn't enforce them. Look at how he tortured prisoners. That is considerably worse. Case closed.
    Actually, I'm looking for another example comparable to the DOMA situation. A President declares a voted on, signed bill which is currently law, unconstitutional and then refuses to defend that law.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Actually, I'm looking for another example comparable to the DOMA situation. A President declares a voted on, signed bill which is currently law, unconstitutional and then refuses to defend that law.
    There is no such animal that exists. The only reason such a tactic is being engaged by the supporters of the Gay Agenda is because of the legislation in the State of Connecticut. They are attempting to once again circumvent the voice of the people and incorporate a LAW FROM THE BENCH instead of through the house of Legislation...its that simple. Connecticut is the ONLY STATE that could be bought by the Gay Community, why? Because this state does not allow the CITIZENS to reform any law once it has been passed by their SUPPOSED representatives...and it is one of the smallest states in population. Now they wish to make all the states share in their law supported by less than .5% of the total US POPULATION. Its simply another GRIFT to purchase votes as the unions are going down in flames.

    Hell the State of California just passed an amendment supporting Traditional Marriage.....this coming from the most liberal state in the union by population. Now we are all to abide by a law passed by one little north eastern state that is so corrupt that it will not even allow its citizens the chance to have a referendum?
    Last edited by Walter; 02-25-11 at 05:25 PM.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    The United States has signed no Agreement with any international terrorist organization that fights under no banner that is part of any compact agreement among STATES. Once again, SUBJECTIVE rhetoric is applied in an attempt to deflect away from the OBJECTIVE evidence. Its simple....produce one injured pow that has been subjected to this...(wink, wink, TORTURE), just one. You would think that if someone is being tortured there would be evidence of that torture, especially when that interrogation method was used under the supervision of a PHYSICIAN.

    Why do you not produce the OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that confirms the United States has prosecuted anyone for the sole purpose of defining waterboarding as torture. Produce the evidence where the US has prosecuted anyone for the sole purpose of using this interrogation method.
    I already did, but here it is again:

    Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime - washingtonpost.com
    In 1983, federal prosecutors charged a Texas sheriff and three of his deputies with violating prisoners' civil rights by forcing confessions. The complaint alleged that the officers conspired to "subject prisoners to a suffocating water torture ordeal in order to coerce confessions. This generally included the placement of a towel over the nose and mouth of the prisoner and the pouring of water in the towel until the prisoner began to move, jerk, or otherwise indicate that he was suffocating and/or drowning."

    The four defendants were convicted, and the sheriff was sentenced to 10 years in prison.
    Notice the highlighted text.

    Evan Wallach | Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime
    The principal proof upon which their torture convictions were based was conduct that we would now call waterboarding.
    Bush Cancels Visit To Switzerland Due To Threat Of Torture Prosecution, Rights Groups Say
    (Reuters) - Former U.S. President George W. Bush has cancelled a visit to Switzerland, where he was to address a Jewish charity gala, due to the risk of legal action against him for alleged torture, rights groups said on Saturday.
    Here is the Washington Law Review citing why they believe waterboarding is illegal:

    Waterboarding is Illegal - Washington University Law Review
    The United States has enacted statutes prohibiting torture and cruel or inhuman treatment. It is these statutes which make waterboarding illegal.[22] The four principal statutes which Congress has adopted to implement the provisions of the foregoing treaties are the Torture Act,[23] the War Crimes Act,[24],and the laws entitled “Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment of Persons Under Custody or Control of the United States Government”[25] and “Additional Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.”[26] The first two statutes are criminal laws while the latter two statutes extend civil rights to any person in the custody of the United States anywhere in the world.
    There is no doubt that waterboarding is illegal under the plain language of each of these four statutes. When it is practiced in other countries, the State Department characterizes waterboarding as “torture.”[46] Waterboarding inflicts “severe pain and suffering” on its victims, both physically and mentally, and therefore it is torture within the meaning of the Torture Act and the War Crimes Act.[47] It inflicts “serious pain and suffering” upon its victims, and it qualifies as “serious physical abuse,” therefore it is “cruel or inhuman treatment” within the meaning of the War Crimes Act.[48] Finally, American courts have ruled that when prisoners in the United States are subjected to waterboarding, it is a violation of the Fifth, Eighth, and Fourteenth Amendments, and therefore it would be a violation of 42 U.S.C. §§ 2000dd and 2000dd-0 prohibiting cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment.[49]
    (The Washington University Law Review article is really good)
    Last edited by whysoserious; 02-25-11 at 05:50 PM.
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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Don't start that nonsense. Waterboarding has always been considered torture, but the US. We can go down that road again, siting all the same sources, where we've prosecuted people, including our own people for waterbaording. You can then pretend this was a different procedure, noting meaningless differences. I can point that out.

    It's all rather pointless. It was torture. And no torturing of the language will change that.
    BS. Water boarding is part of POW training. You want to know what torture is? Watch someone get their head chopped off on the internet.
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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Actually, I'm looking for another example comparable to the DOMA situation. A President declares a voted on, signed bill which is currently law, unconstitutional and then refuses to defend that law.
    You keep repeating the same tired stuff that has been refuted repeatedly in this thread. read the full text of Holder's comments. Read the other articles linked here. Just repeating the same false, refuted stuff again and again does not, and will not make it true.

    Hint: if Obama was declaring the law unconstitutional, why is it still the law of the land?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Moderator's Warning:
    Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage LawThread is not about torture guys, take that discussion elsewhere.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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