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Thread: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

  1. #131
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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No it does not mean that. It means that the AG will not defend the law in court, which is entirely different.
    I'm sorry, but it's right in black and white in very clear language. It does mean that. I bolded it for you before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Action of notifying courts of the decision of the executive, which the courts are not bound to heed.
    Then the President could have signed an executive order, or held a press conference if the course will not heed it - but then again, the action isn't just notification of the courts, it's refusing to defend the law in the courts, which is why I say the President is not upholding Article 2, Section 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    SG's and AG's work for the president. The only difference is that the president was directly involved in the discussion, but the exact same level of responsibility existed in both this case and the ones that happened under Bush.
    It wasn't just a discussion, it was a decision and he declared that decision specifically and personally. I would love to see the same declaration read to the courts where Bush or Clinton, or Ford or whomever, stated specifically, they declare a law unconstitutional. I know you say they did, so there must be a record of it.

    This doesn't change the fact that no where in the Constitution does this power exist for the President.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #132
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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I'm sorry, but it's right in black and white in very clear language. It does mean that. I bolded it for you before.
    This is the statement: "The President has also concluded that Section 3 of DOMA, as applied to legally married same-sex couples, fails to meet that standard and is therefore unconstitutional"...this is an opinion. It has no standing in a court of law. The law is not now unconstitutional. DOMA is in fact still the law of the land. Court cases involving DOMA will still go forward. DOMA will still stand until most likely SCOTUS rules on it. What part of this is confusing you?

    Then the President could have signed an executive order, or held a press conference if the course will not heed it - but then again, the action isn't just notification of the courts, it's refusing to defend the law in the courts, which is why I say the President is not upholding Article 2, Section 3.
    But he is upholding the law. DOMA is still enforced. He has zero obligation to defend it in court however, which is how the process he has to follow to not defend it came about.

    It wasn't just a discussion, it was a decision and he declared that decision specifically and personally. I would love to see the same declaration read to the courts where Bush or Clinton, or Ford or whomever, stated specifically, they declare a law unconstitutional. I know you say they did, so there must be a record of it.

    This doesn't change the fact that no where in the Constitution does this power exist for the President.
    Obama did not declare a law unconstitutional. DOMA is still the law of the land. You are confusing yourself somewhere.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Not really, as all that getting rid of DOMA does is finally leave it up to the states...unless of course a court case can win on Constitutional grounds much like Loving v Virginia did. And states haven't really been very receptive to SSM I hate to say.
    I'd still like to see the feds run with this, and make withholding the rights of gays to marriage a violation of federal law. Unfortunately, I think the current SCOTUS would overturn it on appeal. So it looks like it really will be a state-by-state battle.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Found this for the other thread, and should include it here. It might clear up some misunderstandings. Source: Box Turtle Bulletin » DOMA: recap, summary, and analysis

    It is important to understand that the Administration did not say that it was refusing on unwilling to defend the law but rather that it was incapable of defending the law. There simply were no arguments to present to the court.

    Those who claim that the Administration is “choosing which laws to defend” are either confused or dishonest. Those who say that this will “nationalize” same-sex marriage and impose it on unwilling states are either confused or dishonest. Those who go on TV and spout completely false information about this decision are either irresponsible or dishonest. I’m inclined to suspect ‘dishonest.’
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    So I'm assuming that you also don't eat shellfish or where clothing made from two types of fiber, am I correct? Because that is against god's word as well...and you know that if you truly are "Christian" and believe in the bible, and that is TRULY believe in it, not just what you choose to, then you're agreeing with the Bible's views towards prohibiting the eating of shellfish and wearing clothing made from two types of fibers. If you are a true "Christian"...then putting God before yourself should not be a problem right? Are you one of those people who just takes bits and pieces of the bible that you want to agree/disagree with?
    I don't eat shellfish, and 100% cotton boy
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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I just read that and while very interesting --- SG's and DOJ lawyers may have argued that during those specific cases, no President has come out and declared it though, not like this. Holder read the letter from the President where he stated:

    I'm sorry but that's not for him to decide. You may argue that this is clear exception due as the law infringes on Executive powers but I don't see how it does. To be fair, I don't see the need to circumvent the process by simply declaring "I don't agree" and ignore it in any of the cases... this is a backdoor veto without having to step up and put pen to paper. So my "hyperbolic" rhetoric stands... what's unconstitutional is this type of action no matter who does it. That the President is violating his own Article II vow for what... political gain to get more votes during the upcoming election in 2012? Not surprising...
    I kinda wonder how many people pissed at Obama for giving his opinion on this law were pissed off when Bush did similar things. Signing statements to excuse the Executive branch from laws, an AG who never prosecuted or did his job, etc. It's not like Obama invented this.
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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I kinda wonder how many people pissed at Obama for giving his opinion on this law were pissed off when Bush did similar things. Signing statements to excuse the Executive branch from laws, an AG who never prosecuted or did his job, etc. It's not like Obama invented this.
    Is there one you can point out where Bush personally identified a law was unconstitutional and therefore will not be pursued by the DoJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress
    Obama did not declare a law unconstitutional. DOMA is still the law of the land. You are confusing yourself somewhere.
    Yeah, this statement from the President is confusing me.

    The President has also concluded that Section 3 of DOMA, as applied to legally married same-sex couples, fails to meet that standard and is therefore unconstitutional.


    Is that not a declarative sentence? When someone says "___ is unconstitutional" and then you tell me that's not what he said, it's not only confusing but contradictory. If you want to go on believing what you said earlier, I'll just bow out now and not participate in the nonsense.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    As if we didn't have enough irons in the fire right now, Obama throws this in there, too. Do we have to deal with this right now?

    I guess when you need something to distract people from reality.................................

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    So this means when the Conservatives take back the white house in 2012 all they need do is instruct the DOJ not to defend, The Health Care Act, Roe v. Wade...any number of laws. So all anyone need do is launch a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of any law, since the DOJ will not defend it through the court system...it must be up to Congress to defend it. Now does anyone really expect a Conservative Congress to defend the Health Care Act? How about Roe v. Wade? Hell it well be a win at the first level, the DOJ does not appeal and bingo...no Health Care Law, Roe v. Wade is made unconstitutional by the same method it was declared constitution.....by TALK from a Judge. Fair Deal....we will trade, take your Gay Marriage...FOR NOW.

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    Re: Obama Administration Drops Defense of Anti-Gay Marriage Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Is there one you can point out where Bush personally identified a law was unconstitutional and therefore will not be pursued by the DoJ?
    Bush didn't declare that laws were unconstitutional and then enforce them like Obama is doing, he did the opposite. He never declared them unconstitutional but simply didn't enforce them. Look at how he tortured prisoners. That is considerably worse. Case closed.

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