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Thread: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

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    Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    The parts in this article I consider most troubling:

    For four days, rebels newly armed with anti-aircraft guns and Kalashnikovs battled forces loyal to Col. Gadhafi and commanded by one of his sons. After days of firefights, feints and an ambush on unarmed local sheiks, the regime forces surrendered their hold on the vital local airport Tuesday morning—placing nearly all of eastern Libya outside Col. Gadhafi's control.
    On Wednesday, several of the 300 to 350 pro-Gadhafi fighters captured in the airport siege—the many soldiers among them that locals say are mercenaries hired from other African countries—will face a popular trial.

    "We expect they will be executed," said one of the residents, Fadhil al-Hadouthi, an unemployed 38-year-old who helped coordinate logistics and medical relief for the pro-democracy rebels who battled Mr. Gadhafi's forces.
    The fate of others may have already been determined, grimly. Earlier Tuesday in Sidi Burana, an Egyptian town on the border with Libya, Egyptian workers fleeing back home showed thumb-drive and cell-phone videos with pictures of what they said were captured pro-government mercenaries being viciously beaten in Baida. One video showed a dark skinned man, who the Egyptian workers said was a mercenary from Chad, being beaten to death. Another video showed what they said were mutilated mercenary corpses.
    Source: The Wall Street Journal

    The longer Gadhafi holds out the greater the chances of this developing into a rather bloody civil war.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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    Re: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    What do mercenaries fight for? Money? They are scum who are willing to kill people for money. If they're killed mercilessly, sure, it's a shame that they didn't get to enjoy due process. Am I all that beat up about it? Not really.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    The Gadhafi regime's brutality is disturbing. That more than 1,000 persons have reportedly died is distressing.

    The captured mercenaries are not innocent victims. They made a deliberate choice to help the dictatorship violently oppress the country's own population, frequently knowingly and viciously targeting civilians. With no ties to the country and its people, they have engaged in some of the most brutal violence against Libya's people.

    Having said that, I do not support violent retribution against the mercenaries. Instead, they should be tried and held to account, if convicted. There should be a proper judicial process. Where there is adequate evidence to convict the mercenaries who carried out crimes against humanity, those responsible should not escape justice.

    Finally, I have little doubt that the regime is trying to foment a civil war. However, as word spreads about the regime's deliberate violence against Libya's people, tribal differences could temporarily give way to a de facto consensus to topple the regime. Afterward, though, there will be real risk that tribal rivalries could reassert themselves if the narrow consensus concerning the dictatorship can't be transformed into a broader consensus necessary to hold together the country. It is a risky situation.

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    Re: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What do mercenaries fight for? Money? They are scum who are willing to kill people for money. If they're killed mercilessly, sure, it's a shame that they didn't get to enjoy due process. Am I all that beat up about it? Not really.
    My concern is that such violence and hostility tends to linger and fester. People have a nasty habit of making broad associations as a result. Just because the groups they are opposing have behaved brutally does not mean brutality in retaliation should be accepted. In fact, it only increases the chances that any government they install will behave in a similar manner.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

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    Re: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    Gaddafi will get what's coming to him. There is no mercy in Africa, and that goes both ways...

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    Re: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    The parts in this article I consider most troubling:

    According to this analysis, the violence may already be a civil war more about rivalries between tribes than about issues.

    Uprising in Libya: 'Survival Hinges on Tribal Solidarity' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International







    Source: The Wall Street Journal

    The longer Gadhafi holds out the greater the chances of this developing into a rather bloody civil war.
    According to this analysis, the violence may already be a civil war more about rivalries between tribes than about issues.

    Uprising in Libya: 'Survival Hinges on Tribal Solidarity' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

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    Re: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    From The New York Times regarding the conduct of the mercenaries in Tripoli:

    Witnesses said groups of heavily armed militiamen and mercenaries from other African countries cruised the streets in pickups, spraying crowds with machine-gun fire and then carting away bodies in vans. On Wednesday, a resident said mercenaries were still roaming the city and enforcing a reign of terror.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/24/wo...a/24libya.html

    As noted previously, the mercenaries are no innocent victims. I favor trials for the mercenaries and then punishment for those convicted of crimes against humanity. The mercenaries should be held fully accountable for their crimes against humanity.

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    Re: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    Just remember that Gadhafi has 44thousand soldiers fiercely loyal to him. The regular army has only about 66thousand and some are defecting. Then you add in the mercenaries that are on Gadhafi's side. Well things are going to be very violent. Do I believe Gadhafi will be ousted? No.

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    Re: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    Just remember that Gadhafi has 44thousand soldiers fiercely loyal to him. The regular army has only about 66thousand and some are defecting. Then you add in the mercenaries that are on Gadhafi's side. Well things are going to be very violent. Do I believe Gadhafi will be ousted? No.
    Right now, I suspect that two possible outcomes are probably more likely than others:

    1) The country winds up fractured with Gadhafi retaining control of Tripoli/nearby areas, but having lost much of the rest of the country, possibly including the oil-producing areas.
    2) Tripoli's residents rise up in desperation, the mercenaries/other loyalists attempt to carry out massacres, greater military defections lead to an overthrow or assassination of Gadhafi and his son.

    IMO, it would be helpful if the UN Security Council adopted a resolution barring commercial transactions with Libya until Gadhafi stepped down and also ordered the freezing of Gadhafi's considerable overseas assets. Such an outcome would cut off the supply of cash needed to finance the mercenaries, destroying their raison d'etre for continuing to support the dictatorship. As the number of mercenaries falls, the military forces aligned with Libya's people would have a better chance at destroying the shrinking pockets of mercenaries. Ultimately, the regime's foundation of power could disintegrate under such a scenario. Afterward, whether the various tribal factions could reach a mutually acceptable accommodation would shape the early stages of Libya's post-Gadhafi future.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 02-23-11 at 06:18 PM.

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    Re: Gadhafi Backers Open Fire in Tripoli

    More on Gadhafi's mercenaries. This is from the BBC's live coverage:

    1753: The Libyan Deputy Ambassador to the UN, Ibrahim Dabbaschi, tells the BBC French for Africa that he has information that mercenaries loyal to Col Gaddafi have been loading the bodies of people killed in Tripoli on planes. He says they are then taken to the desert near the town of Sirte, where they are being dumped.
    As noted previously, the mercenaries who seek profits in carrying out the Gadhafi regime's atrocities are not innocent victims. Those captured should be tried and, if convicted, should be held fully accountable for their crimes.

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