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Thread: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

  1. #71
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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Hmm. I have a question here. If someone works all his life, he doesn't deserve a pension, if the pension comes from the public sector? The way I see it, he deserves a pension if he has worked in either the public or private sector.
    I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. However, when it's Public service workers, tax payers have to pay those and it's hurting the states. They need to pay more into them themselves instead of getting such sweet heart deals. These governors are just trying to fix something that's been a problem for a long time and only getting worse.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Lots and lots and lots of working people don't belong to a union, and don't want to belong to a union.

    A lot of us have done very well, in fact, without a union to hold our hand.
    I agree and Walkers plan would give people a choice. They could no longer be forced to join and pay dues, but they could if they wanted to.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

  3. #73
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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Gapeach View Post
    To me its a bit different. We get our senators from every state of the nation. WI gets their reps from...WI. I dont believe I have the words to express what I mean tonight, so I believe I am finished with at least this post for the night
    Thanks for stopping by. I look forward to reading a future post that includes a coherent thought.

  4. #74
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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. However, when it's Public service workers, tax payers have to pay those and it's hurting the states. They need to pay more into them themselves instead of getting such sweet heart deals. These governors are just trying to fix something that's been a problem for a long time and only getting worse.
    That is not what is happening here. The unions have already made the solicited economic concessions, but apparently that was not enough, as it isn't the real issue.

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Well, here is the problem I have with changing public pensions, and making them retroactive to employees who were hired with a condition being the public pension that they were offered. It is breaking the hiring agreement, which under the law is a tort. The government can actually be sued for breaking an existing hiring agreement although, for new employees, it would be considered fair, since it would be part of a new hiring agreement. I have no problem with changes in the way public pensions are administered, but it cannot apply to those already hired under the old pension plan who, under the law, accepted their positions with the assumption that they would be receiving what was offered as a part of their benefits, when they were offered their position. Had they been offered the new pension plan when they were being offered a job, then would they have turned down the job offer, and taken a position in the private sector instead? And that, in a nutshell, is a major problem, both legally and ethically.
    First, that's not what's on the table in Wisconsin. Second, my Social Security age was upped. Ooops. Money out of my pocket that I'd planned on. How much more "up" will the age be set before 40-year-olds retire? Soooo, it's no more an ethical problem in a pension plan than in the Social Security system. Pension plans are changed and even dissolved every day in the United States. That's why there's a Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation in existence. (PGBC)

    Further, at the Federal level, union members cannot collectively bargain their wages or benefits. Wisconsin's legislation let's them continue bargaining their benefits. Yet President Obama weighed in to say this was union busting. Folks, we'd better start waking up.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    I agree and Walkers plan would give people a choice. They could no longer be forced to join and pay dues, but they could if they wanted to.
    they have a choice when they apply for the job...they are made aware upfront that the job is unionized...if they don't like unions, they can walk away and decline the job.

  7. #77
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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    they have a choice when they apply for the job...they are made aware upfront that the job is unionized...if they don't like unions, they can walk away and decline the job.
    People should not be forced to be in a union to get the job.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    People should not be forced to be in a union to get the job.
    and those that would choose not to join the union shouldnt recieve the benefits/pay that were negotiated by the union, and shouldnt be entitled to representation by the union.

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    and those that would choose not to join the union shouldnt recieve the benefits/pay that were negotiated by the union...
    Why?
    ...................
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Why?
    ...................
    why should they?

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