Page 6 of 14 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 134

Thread: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

  1. #51
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,277

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    bravo indiana democrats!!!
    So you condone irresponsible behavior. Gotcha.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  2. #52
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Hmm. I have a question here. If someone works all his life, he doesn't deserve a pension, if the pension comes from the public sector? The way I see it, he deserves a pension if he has worked in either the public or private sector.
    I've forgotten in what context I made that comment, Dan. (And too lazy to go back and check.)

    Public sector pensions are Rolls Royces. While the private sector has almost exclusively embraced 401K's or other Defined Contribution Plans, public sector pensions are Defined Benefit Plans.

    Simply explained, that means that the private sector is promised, as an example, "we'll match any money you put into your 401K up to 15% of your income." That money is then left in a family of funds or other investment options -- to grow and become available to the account holder when he retires.

    In the public sector, these Rolls Royce Plans promise a % of one's salary depending on age at retirement and length of service. These plans are structured actuarily with imputed growth rates and, whether those growth rates are met or not, the benefit doesn't change. These plans are under water big time. And taxpayers are paying the price. Example:

    Continuing to sound the alarm on local pension funds, Chicago's Civic Federation will release a report Thursday that shows the unfunded liabilities for 10 city and county pension funds grew sixfold from 2000 to 2009, with shortfalls now totaling nearly $23 billion.

    Coupled with Chicago residents' share of state pension debt, covering the unfunded liabilities of public pensions would now cost every man, woman and child in Chicago more than $11,934, up from $2,442 just a decade ago, the report found.
    Everybody should have a pension. Everybody should contribute to their pension. The right of a public employee to have a Rolls Royce Plan can no longer be carried on the backs of those taxpayers in the private sector. We can't afford it anymore....thanks to politicians who gave away the store at the bargaining table and public sector employees who have no idea how exceptional their pensions are in the real world and, frankly, don't give a damn. They just want 'em.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  3. #53
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,277

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I've forgotten in what context I made that comment, Dan. (And too lazy to go back and check.)

    Public sector pensions are Rolls Royces. While the private sector has almost exclusively embraced 401K's or other Defined Contribution Plans, public sector pensions are Defined Benefit Plans.

    Simply explained, that means that the private sector is promised, as an example, "we'll match any money you put into your 401K up to 15% of your income." That money is then left in a family of funds or other investment options -- to grow and become available to the account holder when he retires.

    In the public sector, these Rolls Royce Plans promise a % of one's salary depending on age at retirement and length of service. These plans are structured actuarily with imputed growth rates and, whether those growth rates are met or not, the benefit doesn't change. These plans are under water big time. And taxpayers are paying the price. Example:



    Everybody should have a pension. Everybody should contribute to their pension. The right of a public employee to have a Rolls Royce Plan can no longer be carried on the backs of those taxpayers in the private sector. We can't afford it anymore....thanks to politicians who gave away the store at the bargaining table and public sector employees who have no idea how exceptional their pensions are in the real world and, frankly, don't give a damn. They just want 'em.
    The FERS uses a 401K plan as the primary source of retirement along with social security.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  4. #54
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The FERS uses a 401K plan as the primary source of retirement along with social security.
    This is the "reformed version," yes? That's a wonderful thing. And fair to all concerned. Who could have a problem with that? Not me, certainly. But there's alllll those other ones out there --

    •State pension funds are underfunded by over $3 trillion; this is more than six times the $438 billion in underfunding the plans themselves report. Pension shortfalls far exceed explicit state debts.

    •Current state pension accounting practices are inaccurate and outmoded. Private pension plans would not be allowed to use such methods.

    •Market valuation of pension shortfalls more accurately shows the risk to state budgets and taxpayers.

    •Pension contributions, benefits, and retirement ages must be reformed, but this will be difficult until states adopt accurate accounting methods.
    AEI - The Market Value of Public-Sector Pension Deficits
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  5. #55
    Educator TheBook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Last Seen
    11-28-11 @ 01:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    880

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    I honestly didn't think the dems could trump the bad publicity the republicans got from their "party of no" platform, but this comes close (only because it's not in the federal government but in a state government). It's just sort of pathetic, really.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
    Who Is Chicago Ted?

  6. #56
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:22 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,771

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Standing up for the rights of working people is HEROIC.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #57
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Standing up for the rights of working people is HEROIC.
    Surprise, Haymarket!!!! We're all working people!!!! It's just that us "non-public-sector workers" can't afford carrying you "public-sector workers" on our backs much longer.

    We're ALL working people!! What an arrogant statement.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  8. #58
    Dungeon Master
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

    spud_meister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Didjabringabeeralong
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    33,868
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Standing up for the rights of working people is HEROIC.
    Yeah, I'll stand up for your rights....from over there....by avoiding actually doing anything...

    And they're not standing up for working people rights anyway, they're standing up for the unions coffers.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  9. #59
    Slayer of the DP Newsbot
    danarhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    39,728

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I've forgotten in what context I made that comment, Dan. (And too lazy to go back and check.)

    Public sector pensions are Rolls Royces. While the private sector has almost exclusively embraced 401K's or other Defined Contribution Plans, public sector pensions are Defined Benefit Plans.

    Simply explained, that means that the private sector is promised, as an example, "we'll match any money you put into your 401K up to 15% of your income." That money is then left in a family of funds or other investment options -- to grow and become available to the account holder when he retires.

    In the public sector, these Rolls Royce Plans promise a % of one's salary depending on age at retirement and length of service. These plans are structured actuarily with imputed growth rates and, whether those growth rates are met or not, the benefit doesn't change. These plans are under water big time. And taxpayers are paying the price. Example:



    Everybody should have a pension. Everybody should contribute to their pension. The right of a public employee to have a Rolls Royce Plan can no longer be carried on the backs of those taxpayers in the private sector. We can't afford it anymore....thanks to politicians who gave away the store at the bargaining table and public sector employees who have no idea how exceptional their pensions are in the real world and, frankly, don't give a damn. They just want 'em.
    Well, here is the problem I have with changing public pensions, and making them retroactive to employees who were hired with a condition being the public pension that they were offered. It is breaking the hiring agreement, which under the law is a tort. The government can actually be sued for breaking an existing hiring agreement although, for new employees, it would be considered fair, since it would be part of a new hiring agreement. I have no problem with changes in the way public pensions are administered, but it cannot apply to those already hired under the old pension plan who, under the law, accepted their positions with the assumption that they would be receiving what was offered as a part of their benefits, when they were offered their position. Had they been offered the new pension plan when they were being offered a job, then would they have turned down the job offer, and taken a position in the private sector instead? And that, in a nutshell, is a major problem, both legally and ethically.
    Last edited by danarhea; 02-24-11 at 11:45 AM.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  10. #60
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:14 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,054

    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Standing up for the rights of working people is HEROIC.
    Lots and lots and lots of working people don't belong to a union, and don't want to belong to a union.

    A lot of us have done very well, in fact, without a union to hold our hand.

Page 6 of 14 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •