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Thread: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

  1. #111
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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    it doesn't matter if a salary comes from free market competition, or from tax payers. you work for the money, it is yours do do with as you please. you can't stop people from donating their money to unions. that would be an absurd rights violation.

    but we can stop forcing people from giving these union dues as a stipulation to getting the job.
    Walker is not attempting to stop people from donating to unions. He is trying to make it so that it is not mandatory. And if given the option, many will choose to spend their $1,000 elsewhere, effectively neutering the union. Funny how unions only seem to work when they're forced on people.

    And a taxpayer-paid, non-profit government union should not be able to collectively bargain their compensation against taxpayers, particularly when it is a forced membership as it is in Wisconsin.

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Walker is not attempting to stop people from donating to unions. He is trying to make it so that it is not mandatory. And if given the option, many will choose to spend their $1,000 elsewhere, effectively neutering the union. Funny how unions only seem to work when they're forced on people.

    And a taxpayer-paid, non-profit government union should not be able to collectively bargain their compensation against taxpayers, particularly when it is a forced membership as it is in Wisconsin.

    Walker is doing a great job. It's purely semantic, but your wording of not allowing unions in the public sector is confusing. and it gets more confusing when you explain how these workers can't donate to unions because they are paid by taxpayers.

    I think we agree in principle, I just don't agree with how you explain your position.

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Walker is doing a great job. It's purely semantic, but your wording of not allowing unions in the public sector is confusing. and it gets more confusing when you explain how these workers can't donate to unions because they are paid by taxpayers.

    I think we agree in principle, I just don't agree with how you explain your position.
    What we disagree with is the definition of a union. When it's mandated, I don't agree it's just a collection of people getting together for a common cause. A union is a Political Action Committee designed to take away a private businesses ability to demand certain production in relation to compensation. There are few things more difficult than firing a union employee regardless of their work record.

    When you take a government job, you are accepting money drawn from the forced collection of taxes. As such, I don't believe you should be allowed to unionize against people that didn't directly hire you in the first place. Sure, work conditions and whatnot are still to meet legal standards (established when unions were truly useful), but compensation packages should be based on enticing good workers, not negotiatied by hired national racketeers, especially when it isn't a private business be held to accountable for meeting financial goals and budgets.

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    What we disagree with is the definition of a union. When it's mandated, I don't agree it's just a collection of people getting together for a common cause. A union is a Political Action Committee designed to take away a private businesses ability to demand certain production in relation to compensation. There are few things more difficult than firing a union employee regardless of their work record.
    yes, at their core, unions are basically lobbyists.

    but that fault is wholly in what our government has become.

    we can't throw the baby out with the bath water

    our right to petition the government is the baby

    the way our government hands out favors to groups, like trade unions, is the bathwater.

  5. #115
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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    yes, at their core, unions are basically lobbyists.

    but that fault is wholly in what our government has become.

    we can't throw the baby out with the bath water

    our right to petition the government is the baby

    the way our government hands out favors to groups, like trade unions, is the bathwater.
    Petitioning the government as a citizen is one thing.

    Petitioning the government as an employee is quite another.

    And petitioning the government as a mandated union member is altogether something entirely different.

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Petitioning the government as a citizen is one thing.

    Petitioning the government as an employee is quite another.

    And petitioning the government as a mandated union member is altogether something entirely different.
    and Walker is going to stop the mandated union dues, but not collective bargaining of salaries.

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    of course. the isuse is not public unions, it is the government coddling of these public unions.

    the government should not assist in collecting dues, it should not force people to pay dues.

    I want a single progressive to step forward and say it would be ok to make it a requirement to contribute to the GOP as a precursor to getting a job - public or private job even! none of them would allow for such thing, but they will fight tooth and nail to preserve this advantage for themselves.
    for the millionth and one time....union dues are not spent on political activity...political contributions are separate and voluntary from union dues.

  8. #118
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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    for the millionth and one time....union dues are not spent on political activity...political contributions are separate and voluntary from union dues.
    And I gotta bridge to sell you. Union bosses don't make $500,000 salaries for nothing.

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    And I gotta bridge to sell you. Union bosses don't make $500,000 salaries for nothing.
    put down the kool aid, and do your homework. quit believing all the crap you have been told, and turn off hannity/limbaugh/beck for a day.

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    Re: Indiana Democrats flee state legislature to avoid anti-union vote

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    put down the kool aid, and do your homework. quit believing all the crap you have been told, and turn off hannity/limbaugh/beck for a day.
    Ah yes, the tried and true default response.

    Anyone who believes unions are worthy organizations does not have to work with them. I have had TONS of experience trying to work with these embittered wannabes, and I wouldn't give you a box of rocks for a single one of them.

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