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BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

Apocalypse said:
And unless you provide explanation I must say you are making yourself very easy to ignore with those kind of "debate skills".

The cause is the povetry of the Somali citizens, and that is the responsibility of the Somali government, not the American one.
The Ameircan government has however an obligation to maintain the security of its citizens at home and abroad.
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I have been over it a million times in your other Pirate thread.

Here:
Laila said:
For normal people perhaps.

For individuals in a country which has seen nothing but death for a few decades and a generation who has been raised around it as a norm? I doubt it.
Piracy will not stop without the root causes solved.
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Incorrect.
Sure, poverty can be used as a excuse now. But that is not how "piracy" began.
It was fishermen who were having their livelihood taken away from them by other
countries llegally dumping and fishing in Somali waters and took their money, so they armed themselves to ward them off.
Hence why Somalis call them coast guards. Not Pirates.
I consider the Pirates those who enter Somalia's waters to fish our god given natural resources and dump their crap in Somali waters. They thought no one would do anything.

Somalis did and now the world is getting pissy. Please.
I support those coast guards who operate in Somali waters and always will.
 
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digsbe said:
:2grouphug We needs hugs and money, maybe then they will stop :mrgreen:
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Maybe President Obama can send them the unicorns and rainbows we never got :ninja:

They could eat the unicorns, thus ending the hunger issues... and follow the rainbows to the pot of gold, thus ending their money worries.
 
Laila said:
countries llegally dumping and fishing in Somali waters and took their money, so they armed themselves to ward them off.
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Now this, I agree with. As much as I'm not keen to the organization, could the Somali's not bring issue to the UN concerning any proof of countries illegally acting within their waters?
 
liblady said:
i know.....and it's why u.s. citizens should not be allowed to travel in those waters.
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Why was those Americans near Somali waters?

Talk about crazy. Wow.
It's like those Americans who back packed across Iran
 
Zyphlin said:
Now this, I agree with. As much as I'm not keen to the organization, could the Somali's not bring issue to the UN concerning any proof of countries illegally acting within their waters?
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The UN is only as effective as the sovereignty provided to it by its member nations (which means not a whole damn lot). This is why we have ad hoc anti-piracy forces operating in the area under the banner of their own countries rather than a dedicated international force.
 
Zyphlin said:
Now this, I agree with. As much as I'm not keen to the organization, could the Somali's not bring issue to the UN concerning any proof of countries illegally acting within their waters?
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It did. Somaliland as well have stated it. So did Puntland
They have been saying it for decades that countries were exploiting Somali waters.

US ignored. Europe refused to budge and Asia because it was their companies primarily responsible for it.
They didn't do anything. If US, Europe, Asia ignore. UN does nothing

So the fishermen took it upon themselves to protect Somali waters and it has been fed by greed. It's original cause was noble to me.
 
Whovian said:
So, you support the killing of unarmed, Christian missionaries?
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Considering the vessel wasn't illegally dumping nor fishing in Somali waters and I believe was captured outside of Somali territory my guess would be no.
 
Whovian said:
So, you support the killing of unarmed, Christian missionaries?
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They weren't in Somali waters.
They weren't fishing.
They weren't dumping
They are not a rich company or from one of the countries responsible.

They should have been released. So no.
 
Whovian said:
why not do the same thing that cops do? Use a 'bait boat'.

Have a remotely controlled boat followed by a sub. The pirates board the boat... discover it empty... and the sub takes out the boat while the pirates are abord. Do that enough times, and maybe the piracy will at least slow.
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Q-ship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Zyphlin said:
Considering the vessel wasn't illegally dumping nor fishing in Somali waters and I believe was captured outside of Somali territory my guess would be no.
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The statement was...
I support those coast guards who operate in Somali waters and always will.
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Since those 'coast guards' are the same ones who killed the 4 missionaries, that statement would indicate approval.
 
Laila said:
I have been over it a million times in your other Pirate thread.

Here:

Laila said:
For normal people perhaps.

For individuals in a country which has seen nothing but death for a few decades and a generation who has been raised around it as a norm? I doubt it.
Piracy will not stop without the root causes solved.
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That their nation has seen a lot of deaths means not that they as individuals would not be deterred to do something if they knew it'd get them killed.
Individuals may only see death once, and if an individual would know that eating a poisoned fruit would get him killed he would not eat it, no matter how hungry he was.
So by all means, deterrence is the solution, and frankly, it's not like there are even any other options here.

Incorrect.
Sure, poverty can be used as a excuse now. But that is not how "piracy" began.
It was fishermen who were having their livelihood taken away from them by other
countries llegally dumping and fishing in Somali waters and took their money, so they armed themselves to ward them off.
Hence why Somalis call them coast guards. Not Pirates.
I consider the Pirates those who enter Somalia's waters to fish our god given natural resources and dump their crap in Somali waters. They thought no one would do anything.
Click to expand...

Why would I care for that? You're making no sense here, the current cause is not illegal fishing or whatever, it is poverty. This may have been the cause for the poverty to exist in Somalia, but right now the cause for piracy is that poverty, and it is not the American government's responsibility or role to end that poverty. And since Somalia's government is either incapable or reluctant to deal with the piracy against foreign citizens, it is the responsibility of those citizens' countries to step in and maintain their security.
 
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Whovian said:
Since those 'coast guards' are the same ones who killed the 4 missionaries, that statement would indicate approval.
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No they are not.

And they weren't operating in Somali waters.
 
Simple solution:

Tell the Somali's that any ship that goes beyond 5 miles from shore will be attacked if it approaches any US Flag ship. And then back it up with action. Piracy, solved.
 
Apocalypse said:
And since Somalia's government is either incapable or reluctant to deal with the piracy against foreign citizens, it is the responsibility of those citizens' countries to step in and maintain their security.
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There is no such thing as "Somalia's Government".

Call it what it is.
US instated puppets who are made up of murderers and warlords who no one wants and who control less territory than my Garden and must be under 24 hour protection from their own people.

Sure there is another option.
I have been saying military option will do nothing.
But if you so badly want a Military option. I'll give you one:

US blows up any ship that enters/leaves Somali waters. Done.
I fixed piracy. Oh and in before the outrage by the rest of the world when Asian and European boats get blown up :/

Infact when NATO invited Somali Elders on board. They asked the Elders for help to eradicate Piracy on land but refused to do anything about the illegal fishing and dumping saying it weren't in their jurisdiction. :roll:
 
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Laila said:
There is no such thing as "Somalia's Government".

Call it what it is.
US instated puppets who are made up of murderers and warlords who no one wants and who control less territory than my Garden and must be under 24 hour protection from their own people.

Sure there is another option.
I have been saying military option will do nothing.
But if you so badly want a Military option. I'll give you one:

US blows up any ship that enters/leaves Somali waters. Done.
I fixed piracy. Oh and in before the outrage by the rest of the world when Asian and European boats get blown up :/

Infact when NATO invited Somali Elders on board. They asked the Elders for help to eradicate Piracy on land but refused to do anything about the illegal fishing and dumping saying it weren't in their jurisdiction. :roll:
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Gotta love the excuse making for killing innocent people here.
 
MrVicchio said:
Gotta love the excuse making for killing innocent people here.
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Location: US

How many Iraqis and Afghans Civilians have died?
Yeah ... come join me down here on my stool with my lack of morality.
 
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Whovian said:
Are you saying you're concerned the pirates would be trying to lure the subs into an ambush, or are you agreeing with me?

from your link...
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No, what I am saying is what you are suggesting is basically a variation on Q-ships.
 
Laila said:
Location: US

How many Iraqis and Afghans Civilians have died?
Yeah ... come join me down here on my stool with my lack of morality.
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Aww, isn't it cute, the "moral equivocation game!" What's funny is, you think you're scoring points. You never do. You just look silly.
 
MrVicchio said:
Aww, isn't it cute, the "moral equivocation game!" What's funny is, you think you're scoring points. You never do. You just look silly.
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You really think I care about what people think. Nah.

This is just something to pass the time and partly entertainment.
 
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Laila said:
Location: US

How many Iraqis and Afghans Civilians have died?
Yeah ... come join me down here on my stool with my lack of morality.
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and that has what to do with Somali pirates again?
 
Gardener said:
and that has what to do with Somali pirates again?
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Nothing, except the fake morality over innocent people's deaths.

I wonder if he'd be half as pissy if it was a Non American who was killed.
 
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