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Thread: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    As usual you are just making sh** up to support your obsessive, anti-British propaganda. If you can provide a single piece of British history curriculum material that says anything like, I'll withdraw my accusation of bare-faced lying.

    And this has got what to do with Somalia? Your lying is derailing, flaming and baiting.
    I was only commenting on what PeteEU had to say, which was this.

    "I agree. I was taught by English teachers too and the only times the US was mentioned when taking WW1, was when the mental crack the Germans got from the American entrance to the war was discussed, and of course the incompetence of some US commanders that got so many American's killed. Also the highly skilled marksmanship of US soldiers as a whole. But as the over all impact on the fighting and the war, it was always relatively small, which is as I found out later in life, was factually correct. But this is way off topic".

    If you feel he is wrong then you might want to take it up with him.

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Could please provide me with some examples of how school children in Europe are misrepresented the history of American involvement in Europe.
    No problem.

    "I was taught by English teachers too and the only times the US was mentioned when taking WW1, was when the mental crack the Germans got from the American entrance to the war was discussed, and of course the incompetence of some US commanders that got so many American's killed. Also the highly skilled marksmanship of US soldiers as a whole. But as the over all impact on the fighting and the war, it was always relatively small, which is as I found out later in life, was factually correct".

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadius View Post
    That is a mentality I see a lot these days. Like somehow Americans are above all other peoples. Like it's okay what foreigners do to each other, but when you f*ck with America you're going down. We are somehow separate from these people? We are somehow better than these people? We tend to ignore things like genocide when it happens in other countries (and when we're the ones who do it). But when 4 Americans are killed we get all worked up. Sometimes people just disgust me.




    Just "4 people"?


    Really?


    The country is a failure and needs to be invaded and occupied by an international force until it become a stable democracy. Problem is. Only the US is willing to spill blood and were tired of fighting the international communities wars.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    Maybe the UN should send the pirates a sternly worded letter?

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    Quote Originally Posted by USA_1 View Post
    Did we? How much more resources did we send against Germany?
    To be fair, The US couldn't put up much of a fight against Japan in the early stages of their war, (The rest of us had been fighting since 1939) the Japanese had blown up much of the Pacific fleet, so there wasn't much available to get there with

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    No problem.

    "I was taught by English teachers too and the only times the US was mentioned when taking WW1, was when the mental crack the Germans got from the American entrance to the war was discussed, and of course the incompetence of some US commanders that got so many American's killed. Also the highly skilled marksmanship of US soldiers as a whole. But as the over all impact on the fighting and the war, it was always relatively small, which is as I found out later in life, was factually correct".
    Is this a personal anecdote? It seems unlikely.
    Last edited by Manc Skipper; 02-24-11 at 04:25 PM.
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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    Moderator's Warning:
    BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been KilledThe topic of this thread concerns Somali pirates. This thread is not about World War II. Non-germane material should be posted in separate threads in the appropriate subforums.

    Thank you.

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    To be fair, The US couldn't put up much of a fight against Japan in the early stages of their war, (The rest of us had been fighting since 1939) the Japanese had blown up much of the Pacific fleet, so there wasn't much available to get there with.
    It was mostly a naval war in the beginning. And the Pacific is a big piece of water.

    It took a while to build all those Liberty ships to get all our guys and stuff over to Europe too.

    We are all lucky the Germans didn't keep the Soviets as their ally. It would have been a different war. One we could not have won without the Atomic bomb.
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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Moderator's Warning:
    BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been KilledThe topic of this thread concerns Somali pirates. This thread is not about World War II. Non-germane material should be posted in separate threads in the appropriate subforums.

    Thank you.
    We're just shooting the shiit. No harm intended.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    There once was a rather appropriate punishment for piracy…it involved a rope, a yardarm, and the steady beat of a Marine drummer.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: BREAKING NEWS: 4 Americans Abducted by Somali Pirates Have Been Killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That was back in 2007 and Somalia has been run by warlords since 1991, long before George Bush was President.
    I cannot believe I missed this gem.
    Oh hell to the ****ing no are you trying to imply US has had no hand in Somalia prior to Bush and Clinton.
    Are you kidding me? You must be a representation of an average American with absolutely no knowledge of your countries own history in other countries.

    HISTORY 101: SOMALIA
    Gather round people and you may just learn something new today.

    Pre Colonialism:

    Long story short: Somalis had no borders. We dominated EA and we were established as a trading region and we had our own rule of law and qabils (clans)
    Colonalism:

    Britain, French and Italian all eventually played a role in HOA. It was the French who first established a colony in Somalia in the 1860’s. The British wished to protect their trade and so the French and British had an agreement and decided to share a piece of the land (The North region)

    Italy got involved in 89 and established it’s colony down South and expanded and included areas in now Kenya and Ethiopia.

    So now we have:
    Djibouti = French Somalia
    Somaliland = British Somalia
    Somalia = Italian Somalia

    Long story short: Many Qaabils fought back against imperialism but the land was divided between the three European powers. The British left Somaliland alone. Italy screwed about with Somalia and the French .... well, they are still there so not much has changed

    During WW2. Italy used Somali soldiers in the South to try and invade British Somalia to get control of the ports and got repealed by the Somalis in the British Army and went on to take the land from Italy until the 50’s when it became a protectorate of Italy.

    Independence:

    British gave Somaliland it’s independence first as a reward and partly because of the de-colonisation Britain was going under anyway. Italian Somalia got their independence.
    Somaliland and Somalia became united under the banner of Greater Somalia.

    So far so good? Yes.

    Due to colonialation and the border drawing which ran contrary to Somali historical land. Hostilities flared between Somalia and Ethiopia until peace was restored.
    1969 President was assassinated. (God rest his soul, I do wonder where Somalia would be if he hadn’t been killed. Sigh)

    The death of the President left General Siad Barre in power to fill the vacuum and he promptly dissolved the national assembly/banned all parties.

    US supported Ethiopia so Somalia hosted Soviet Union and was strong allies. Even allowing it bases in Somalia to counteract US bases

    Until one of the war of Ogaden where US funded Somalia and Soviet Union sided with Ethiopia and the war continued till there was a peace accord in 88 US/Barre had an alliance.
    It funded hundreds of millions worth of arms to Somalia for the right to use the military facilities which the Soviets actually build.

    Somalia’s strategic position meant these bases were used to support US intervention and interests in Middle East.

    US looked the other way to what Siad Barre was doing to his people which included massive human rights violations as it was deemed unimportant to US as it had the bases and an “ally” in the Horn and continued flooding Somalia with weapons.
    During the decade of support the United States and Italy gave to Barre. Tens of thousands of civilians were massacred at the hands of Barre's Army until the civil war erupted in 1978

    Those in the region of what was formally known as British Somaliland and it’s clan leaders declared independence from Italian Somalia to escape the General’s oppression

    To keep a hold Siad Barre used the weapons US gave to him to try and wipe out the qabils in the North by carpet bombing it and when the SNM (Somali National Movement = Part of British Somaliland) won and declared independence.

    The General tried to divert attention from his failings by using the historical divisions between Somalis and played different Somali clans against each other which led to the chaos which triggered the intervention by the United States in 1992.

    US came to “give” humanitarian assistance. But was seen by many as the primary reason why the General who killed so many of his own people stayed in power for so long.

    Andd well, we all know what happened next. Black Hawk Down

    The billions of dollars US funded to Somalia and arms fell into the hands of militia’s who divided themselves according to territory.

    And from the militia’s death came the warlords which the US has been funding, who ironically were the same people who were killing US soldiers during the intervention
    The warlords kept control of certain areas of the South until they too were overthrown by the people.

    And so we come to the birth of the Islamic Union Courts in 2006.

    The IUC with the support of the local people overthrew the US backed warlords who were as evil as the former Dictator but they were funded to try and fight the Islamists. They lost and the ISC came to power.

    They quickly established law over the land. They implemented a slightly harsh Sharia law. But it did the impossible and Somalia had law and it had order for the first time since 1991. They banned guns and the drug khat which was a favourite amongst the Men

    The IUC were dominated by moderates who prevented things like stoning but allowed Sharia and were in no way in league with Al Qaeda. The IUC was portrayed as Extreme Islamists who would become a haven for Al Qaeda which was completely false.

    Somalia had law. It had peace and it was on it’s way to recovery.

    US did not like the idea of Islamists (no matter how moderate) having a foothold in Horn of Africa and Bush with his paranoid, disgusting self added Somalia into the “war on terror and funded Ethiopia to invade Somalia and did airstrikes in Somalia. The invasion into Somalia was not greeted well. Especially as Somalia and Ethiopia have had a horrible history filled with distrust.
    Somalia had turned from qabils against each other. To a wider context by including it in the war on terror.

    US was seen as funding Christian Ethiopia against Muslim Somalia (and yes, I mentioned the religions because it did matter and play a role - this was around the time where US had also invaded two other Muslim countries in the ME and Bush was seen as just targeting Muslims)

    The inevitable insurgency occurred. IUC was weakened fatally and from it’s ashes came Al Shabab. Al Qaeda’s ideological cousins.

    It fought and with widespread support, repealed in 08/9 the foreigners from Somalia and now Al Shabab controls much of the South and has expressed support and admiration for Al Qaeda. Now Al Qaeda does have a foothold in Horn of Africa.
    Al Shabab has bombed it's neighbors who are funding AU troops. Threatens to attack Uganda and Ethiopia and the North. Puntland and Somaliland.
    It has also welcomed Non African fighters to Somalia. Mainly those from Pakistan and Middle East.


    Disclaimer:
    I have missed much out. Seriously
    This is tailored towards US history in Somalia but if you do complain, I am more than happy to expand the above text to include colonial and Muslim intervention
    Last edited by Laila; 02-24-11 at 04:47 PM.


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