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Hero's unwelcome

DiAnna said:
I call them "brave" because they put themselves in harms' way because they believe in this country. They are neither rash nor stupid. I do not support either the war in Iraq or Afghanistan. I do support those soldiers who have given everything for a country they loved, whether I believe in the political decision that placed them there or not.
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We should respect them for their blind Nationalism? I think they chose to do it because they believe in their nation so much, I just don't think that's a good thing. One needs to alway question one's government. Believing it's ideals and pursuits to always be righteous, just makes you really easy to control.
 
Arcadius said:
I don't see how this is in anyway treasonous to our country. I don't really think they care about morality. This is actually very intelligent, if one wants to maintain national dominance. Our country isn't morally above everyone else, we just claim to be.
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Then perhaps you should go back to the original post to which I was responding instead of weenie wagging without legitimate objection, and ignoring the quotes to which the post was referring.'
 
DiAnna said:
I call them "brave" because they put themselves in harms' way because they believe in this country. They are neither rash nor stupid. I do not support either the war in Iraq or Afghanistan. I do support those soldiers who have given everything for a country they loved, whether I believe in the political decision that placed them there or not.
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Their decision placed them in Afghanistan and Iraq. They chose to enlist. They chose to obediently follow the orders. They never lost their free will. They made themselves susceptable to the consequences of whatever political decisoins would arise.

I'm also very happy that they believe in their country. I believe in my country as well. I believe that we need stupid and rash people to join the military so that they can go and enforce our politcial and economic agendas on the world and maintain our supremacy. I want to continue to be able to eat meat when a billion other people in the world are starving. I want to be able to take 30 minute hot showers when hundreds of millions of people can't get clean drinking water. I want to be able to buy useless, cheap plastic crap made by laborers in China who are paid 17 cents a day when petroleum is becoming more expensive across the rest of the world. I would never be able to live in such relative luxury if not for those military people fighting for what they believe is "freedom" and "democracy" in the world.
 
We can maintain our supremacy without so much loss of life....by using cruise missles and smart bombs. Destroy their ability to defend themselves by taking out their planes and tanks, then offer to protect them from their neighbors if, and only if, they depose their dictators and form a representative government. Ground troops are not needed.....
IMO, the first targets after 9/11 should have been the palaces of the Saudi Royal family....they are the main contributors to radical muslim terrorism...
 
DiAnna said:
Then perhaps you should go back to the original post to which I was responding instead of weenie wagging without legitimate objection, and ignoring the quotes to which the post was referring.'
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I think the quality of my argument is decaying. I need to go to sleep, and refresh my mind.
 
CriticalThought said:
Their decision placed them in Afghanistan and Iraq. They chose to enlist. They chose to obediently follow the orders. They never lost their free will. They made themselves susceptable to the consequences of whatever political decisoins would arise.

I'm also very happy that they believe in their country. I believe in my country as well. I believe that we need stupid and rash people to join the military so that they can go and enforce our politcial and economic agendas on the world and maintain our supremacy. I want to continue to be able to eat meat when a billion other people in the world are starving. I want to be able to take 30 minute hot showers when hundreds of millions of people can't get clean drinking water. I want to be able to buy useless, cheap plastic crap made by laborers in China who are paid 17 cents a day when petroleum is becoming more expensive across the rest of the world. I would never be able to live in such relative luxury if not for those military people fighting for what they believe is "freedom" and "democracy" in the world.
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Please. Come to the "place that must not be mentioned". I have SO much to say to you.
 
DiAnna said:
Please. Come to the "place that must not be mentioned". I have SO much to say to you.
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I'm not sure what that is but feel free to send me a private message if you have something to say to me that you can't say publicly. I have to sign off for now.
 
CriticalThought said:
I'm not sure what that is but feel free to send me a private message if you have something to say to me that you can't say publicly. I have to sign off for now.
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She means the Basement.
 
DiAnna said:
You undermine the patriotism and determination of those brave soldiers who have dedicated their lives to a war that their government has determined to be vital to the national security. Whether I agree with the government's position or not... I do not... has nothing to do with the brave warriors who have done what they were requested to do and what they were trained to do. I can despise the war, yet salute the brave soldiers who have suffered and died on a battlefield that their Commander-In-Chief has demanded they conquer. It breaks my heart that they are there, sacrificing for their beliefs and their honor, in a war that I believe is not only unhonorable but illegal. This is not the fault of our brave men and women of the military. It is the fault of our inept, clueless politicians.
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That is a laudable and completely understandable position DiAnna, but not really at issue in this thread. I believe that the comments by CT were made somewhat ironically.

The central topic of this thread is the treatment of an Iraq War vet at a public meeting at Columbia University. The OP thinks that he was treated very badly. If you were to believe the NY Post report of the meeting you would think so. I thought so when I read it, but then someone posted the audio recording of the meeting. I listened to it and I couldn't hear anything that was worthy of provoking such an unproar of outrage. There were a couple of heckles and a laugh. He wasn't interrupted, he didn't have to stop his speech for order to be restored, he wasn't called the insulting names that the NYP said he was called. He did well, made a creditable speech and that was that. It was a non-story aimed, I reckon, at attacking liberals, because that's what the NY Post is for. Really, check out the recording.
 
I listened to the audio clip from realclear... We'll he made the mistake of saying that people were plotting to kill them at every moment.
"It doesn't matter how you feel about the war. It doesn't matter how you feel about fighting," said Maschek. "There are bad men out there plotting to kill you."

Read more: Wounded Iraq veteran jeered for speaking in Columbia University ROTC debate - NYPOST.com
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Factually true in many senses. However, it's Columbia. Something tells me they have an idea of WHY which sort of swipes the legs from under his point. I would've lolled right in the guys face.

"Racist!" some students yelled at Anthony Maschek...
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What'd he say? Anyone have a direct quote to whatever he said that garnered accusations of racism? Or is it more comfortable to our psyches to assume that jeers of racism were out of pure hatred for the military? Can any more sense be made of this? Not a very informative article. In fact, downright obfuscating.

This isn't the 70's (though I was never there), I have yet to see lines of hippies spitting on returning veterans. I respect vets as much as anyone else. But I judge them on their personal merits and give them credit for the hardship of their duty. Having been around grunts I wouldn't quite throw out the flower wreaths for all of them. And wouldn't putting 11 rounds in the badguy make you a hero :lol:? As for ROTC on campus... I couldn't reall care too much about the issue but I guess if people wan't to do ROTC they should be able to.
 
SE102 said:
What'd he say? Anyone have a direct quote to whatever he said that garnered accusations of racism?
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You listened to the audio. Did you hear anyone shout 'racist'? I didn't.
 
Andalublue said:
You listened to the audio. Did you hear anyone shout 'racist'? I didn't.
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Ditto. Starting out with the concept that bad bad men want to kill us everyday because they are bad and hate us cause were american is enough to listen to. Him getting yelled at for saying something else wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination though.
 
Andalublue said:
That is a laudable and completely understandable position DiAnna, but not really at issue in this thread. I believe that the comments by CT were made somewhat ironically.

The central topic of this thread is the treatment of an Iraq War vet at a public meeting at Columbia University. The OP thinks that he was treated very badly. If you were to believe the NY Post report of the meeting you would think so. I thought so when I read it, but then someone posted the audio recording of the meeting. I listened to it and I couldn't hear anything that was worthy of provoking such an unproar of outrage. There were a couple of heckles and a laugh. He wasn't interrupted, he didn't have to stop his speech for order to be restored, he wasn't called the insulting names that the NYP said he was called. He did well, made a creditable speech and that was that. It was a non-story aimed, I reckon, at attacking liberals, because that's what the NY Post is for. Really, check out the recording.
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You have hit the nail in the thread with your posts in this thread. It's unfortunate this soldier was heckled by a few uncouth in the audience, but it's certainly not newsworthy. If you are still going to argue that, listen to the audio. The NY Post makes it out to be much worse, which puts them in the same category as The Huffington Post and the National Enquirer.

I wish the young soldier the very best.
 
Middleground said:
You have hit the nail in the thread with your posts in this thread. It's unfortunate this soldier was heckled by a few uncouth in the audience, but it's certainly not newsworthy. If you are still going to argue that, listen to the audio. The NY Post makes it out to be much worse, which puts them in the same category as The Huffington Post and the National Enquirer.

I wish the young soldier the very best.
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How about it in a broader context then. Why is it that liberals always say that Universities and College campuses are places where the "open and free exchange of ideas" is welcome, until you have someone on campus that is conservative, then all the sudden they should be shouted down, or in some cases in the past darn near assualted by the intolerant liberal student body, with the support of some of their liberal whack job prof's.?



j-mac
 
CriticalThought said:
We glorify it so that we can entice the stupid young people in our country to go get shot at so that we can strip other countries of their natural resources. It's better to say they are heros fighting for f

reedom and to make the world a safer and more democratic place than tell them the truth that they are just pawns we use to enforce our political and economic agendas on the world.
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"stupid people"?

1. On average the soldier is more educated than the average American.

2. Insulting those who served makes you look like one of those contemptious snots who would shout from far up in the rafters at this soldier and feel good about himself.
 
SE102 said:
I listened to the audio clip from realclear... We'll he made the mistake of saying that people were plotting to kill them at every moment.

Factually true in many senses. However, it's Columbia. Something tells me they have an idea of WHY which sort of swipes the legs from under his point. I would've lolled right in the guys face.


What'd he say? Anyone have a direct quote to whatever he said that garnered accusations of racism? Or is it more comfortable to our psyches to assume that jeers of racism were out of pure hatred for the military? Can any more sense be made of this? Not a very informative article. In fact, downright obfuscating.

This isn't the 70's (though I was never there), I have yet to see lines of hippies spitting on returning veterans. I respect vets as much as anyone else. But I judge them on their personal merits and give them credit for the hardship of their duty. Having been around grunts I wouldn't quite throw out the flower wreaths for all of them. And wouldn't putting 11 rounds in the badguy make you a hero :lol:? As for ROTC on campus... I couldn't reall care too much about the issue but I guess if people wan't to do ROTC they should be able to.
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The part that I bolded has a lot in common with the story in the OP. The spitting Hippies never happened. It was a complete fabrication by the establishment (remember that word?). The students just didn't feel comfortable with the veteran telling them that bad men were always working on ways to kill them. There's been too much crying wolf about terrorist (color coded terrorist watch) in the last ten years. They are tired of those old worn out lines. They know that they are more likely to be struck by lightning twice than to be killed by a terrorist.

At least none of them yelled out "you lie". That would have been disrespectful.

As the unemployment rate continues to rise, the recruitment for the military becomes easier. Does Columbia need to host an ROTC program? I have no idea.
 
j-mac said:
How about it in a broader context then. Why is it that liberals always say that Universities and College campuses are places where the "open and free exchange of ideas" is welcome, until you have someone on campus that is conservative, then all the sudden they should be shouted down, or in some cases in the past darn near assualted by the intolerant liberal student body, with the support of some of their liberal whack job prof's.?
j-mac
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Persecution complex^

We have plenty of conservative voices, speakers, and opinion on campuses. It's the stupid that isn't tolerated.
 
IMO, often when people seek to silence a speaker, it is an indication that they lack the capacity to make an intellectual argument to counter the speaker's positions. Such conduct also undermines the principle of academic freemdom to which colleges and universities are committed, because such behavior undermines debate and discourse, which are underpinnings of academic freedom.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
ungrateful little snots.
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That is my reaction - deep down.

BUT - this was at a college campus. Honestly - did anyone expect something OTHER than that?
Looking at it this way - applying my experiences at my college and the attitudes of some teens who just want to drink and party - applying that to this situation - I think he got off lightly. . .a few laughed and heckled.

Could have been worse - HAS been worse to others, in fact.

And, yes, it IS offensive that other people in other countries don't approve of our country, our values and our individuality. It IS offensive that in other countries the same woman who heckled *that* would have had her independence and free-spirit to scoff at a man beaten out of her.

But I think some (not even a majority) but some college students are so young and unaware of what goes on in the world - they just don't *know*
 
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...it is an indication that they lack the capacity to make an intellectual argument to counter the speaker's positions.
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I fail to see what was so intellectual about the speaker. It's obvious this guy was laughed off stage and the NYpost saw an opportunity to sell some copies with smut to fuel the partisan divide. We don't even know what really happened but the jingo fever is starting to brew up in here.
 
CriticalThought said:
We glorify it so that we can entice the stupid young people in our country to go get shot at so that we can strip other countries of their natural resources. It's better to say they are heros fighting for freedom and to make the world a safer and more democratic place than tell them the truth that they are just pawns we use to enforce our political and economic agendas on the world.
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You really have no clue what the military is like, nor what motivates people to join or be in the military. Choosing to serve is not "stupid". In fact, our people in service tend to be quite bright by any objective standard. Having a different set of values from you does not make them stupid. Quite the opposite I would argue.
 
CriticalThought said:
I don't want them to believe me. I want them to be stupid and go get shot at or allow their kids to go get shot at so that I can continue to pay less at the gas pump than Europe. I have no guilt about it whatsoever. The government exists to serve the people, and maintaining our supremacy is a valid goal. If we have to suppress a few countries, install a few dictators, fabricate intelligence so we can preemptively attack resource rich nations, etc. then fine. Better us than them.
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Trying to be a Poe?
 
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