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Thread: Hero's unwelcome

  1. #61
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadius View Post
    Speaking out against the government is treasonous? Doesn't that defeat the point of our so called, "freedom"? America isn't some righteous force incapable of wrong doing.
    THIS is treasonous:

    I don't want them to believe me. I want them to be stupid and go get shot at or allow their kids to go get shot at so that I can continue to pay less at the gas pump than Europe. I have no guilt about it whatsoever. The government exists to serve the people, and maintaining our supremacy is a valid goal. If we have to suppress a few countries, install a few dictators, fabricate intelligence so we can preemptively attack resource rich nations, etc. then fine. Better us than them.
    And it's immoral.

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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Why? Every great empire has done the same thing. Greece, Persia, Rome, etc. all build their empires on the blood of conquered nations that they expliot to build and maintain their own supremacy. Why do you think America is any different? Because we spread "democaracy" and "freedom" through the world?



    How? How does what I said undermine the US government? How does it undermine the Constitution?
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Oh, I certainly appreciate that they believe they are fighting for something as glorious as our freedom. I don't really care all that much what they believe. The fact is that since the Cold War they are nothing but tools. They fight for our continued economic and political supremacy and if it gives them a warm, glowly feeling to believe they are making the world a freer and better place by doing so, then all the better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadius View Post
    We don't have freedoms, we have privileges. And what CriticalThought said. Actually, this may make me look really strange, but I lie awake at night thinking about how I don't deserve all this material comfort, and that people half way around the world deserve it as much as I, knowing that these people are being slaughtered doesn't help, luckily I've learned ways of making my mind go blank. But that's beside the matter, we don't need to have soldiers half way around the world killing people to protect us in this age. The next major would be nuclear. As conventional war against the U.S. is a ridiculous pursuit at our current military might. The most that will happen is some guys sneaking in and blowing **** up at this point, and such organizations can't be fought with conventional warfare.
    Ladies and Gentlemen I give you the Albert Twins.

  3. #63
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    It's really pretty interesting about how the public perception of the military has changed over the past few decades. I think it has a lot to do with how the role the military has played has changed over that period, along with a strong campaign to tie it into national pride.

    With that being said, the arguments in support of unquestioning loyalty to the military are as equally nonsensical as those promoting unquestioning loyalty to one's country. Typically absurd is the idea that the soldiers in Iraq are "dying for their country" or protecting US citizens, when that clearly is not the case.

    I oppose ROTC recruiters and would have opposed this member's speech justifying them on campus.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    You undermine the patriotism and determination of those brave soldiers who have dedicated their lives to a war that their government has determined to be vital to the national security. Whether I agree with the government's position or not... I do not... has nothing to do with the brave warriors who have done what they were requested to do and what they were trained to do. I can despise the war, yet salute the brave soldiers who have suffered and died on a battlefield that their Commander-In-Chief has demanded they conquer. It breaks my heart that they are there, sacrificing for their beliefs and their honor, in a war that I believe is not only unhonorable but illegal. This is not the fault of our brave men and women of the military. It is the fault of our inept, clueless politicians.
    They weren't drafted, they chose to enlist. They decided they wanted to put themselves in harms way and that they wanted to make themselves obedient. As such, they were rash and stupid, which I suppose you want to call "brave" because you feel you owe them some sort of debt. Really, they chose to be our tool to enforce our economic and political agendas on the world in order to maintain our supremacy.

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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    They weren't drafted, they chose to enlist. They decided they wanted to put themselves in harms way and that they wanted to make themselves obedient. As such, they were rash and stupid, which I suppose you want to call "brave" because you feel you owe them some sort of debt. Really, they chose to be our tool to enforce our economic and political agendas on the world in order to maintain our supremacy.
    I think it's also important to point out the blatant hypocrisy of one who claims to oppose a war but support those fighting it.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #66
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    You undermine the patriotism and determination of those brave soldiers who have dedicated their lives to a war that their government has determined to be vital to the national security. Whether I agree with the government's position or not... I do not... has nothing to do with the brave warriors who have done what they were requested to do and what they were trained to do. I can despise the war, yet salute the brave soldiers who have suffered and died on a battlefield that their Commander-In-Chief has demanded they conquer. It breaks my heart that they are there, sacrificing for their beliefs and their honor, in a war that I believe is not only unhonorable but illegal. This is not the fault of our brave men and women of the military. It is the fault of our inept, clueless politicians.
    Why should we respect them for allowing themselves to be controlled? Why should I respect someone who may have directly or indirectly killed innocent people? War is a disgusting practice, and the ones who participate in it are just as much to blame as the people who sent them there. I think when a man sees his child killed by American bombs, curses both the country and it's soldiers.
    Last edited by Arcadius; 02-22-11 at 04:10 AM.
    Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.~ Ernest Hemingway

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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Gapeach View Post
    If we disband our military, not only do we put mainland US undefended, but we forfeit all the other countries that we have promised to protect and have no military. If you are anti-military, so be it. However, what I have been taught and learned is...always have the bigger Army and you wont get messed with...Hence, no one really messing with us. I love and respect our Military and thankful we have them. If you disagree, so be it. But thats where I stand.
    I have nothing against our military, I just see them for what they are.

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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    THIS is treasonous:



    And it's immoral.
    Our nation was quite literally built on that philosophy. Just ask the Native Americans who lived on the land before the United States decided they wanted it. Yay for the brave soldiers who slaughtered for the sake of spreading freedom and democracy to the Native Americans!

  9. #69
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Gapeach View Post
    If we disband our military, not only do we put mainland US undefended, but we forfeit all the other countries that we have promised to protect and have no military. If you are anti-military, so be it. However, what I have been taught and learned is...always have the bigger Army and you wont get messed with...Hence, no one really messing with us. I love and respect our Military and thankful we have them. If you disagree, so be it. But thats where I stand.
    I'm don't think we should disband the military. I think we shouldn't go to war unless it is absolutely necessary for the nation's security. And I don't think this can really be decided by a government that's corrupt.
    Last edited by Arcadius; 02-22-11 at 04:16 AM.
    Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.~ Ernest Hemingway

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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I think it's also important to point out the blatant hypocrisy of one who claims to oppose a war but support those fighting it.
    Where did I say I opposed the war? As I said before, I want people to be stupid and go get shot at or allow their kids to go get shot at so that I can continue to pay less at the gas pump than Europe. I have no guilt about it whatsoever. The government exists to serve the people, and maintaining our supremacy is a valid goal. If we have to suppress a few countries, install a few dictators, fabricate intelligence so we can preemptively attack resource rich nations, etc. then fine. Better us than them.

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