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Thread: Hero's unwelcome

  1. #121
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    J-mac,

    Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to offer any concrete conclusions as to why some college campuses might have evolved as they have. I can suggest two possible hypotheses:

    1. Part of academic inquiry involves questioning/challenging generally-accepted views, structures, etc., as a subset of a rigorous exchange of views/ideas and their merits. Academic debate might have become skewed disproportionately along the line of challenging the establishment so to speak.

    2. In the hiring process, one typically sees hirees who are remarkably similar to those hiring them e.g., managers who are incrementalists often hire/place in authority people who have similar styles, etc. The same likely happens on college campuses, where faculty hires/tenure decisions tend disproportionately to perpetuate the styles/outlook of existing faculty. Over time, that approach can narrow perspectives.

    Possibly, and I don't reject your well thought out perspective, however, that still points to a problem within Colleges and Universities that take my tax dollars, and then soak me for crushing tuition costs then does it not?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  2. #122
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Possibly, and I don't reject your well thought out perspective, however, that still points to a problem within Colleges and Universities that take my tax dollars, and then soak me for crushing tuition costs then does it not?


    j-mac
    In an environment where academic freedom is impaired, I would suspect that student learning would be undermined. That outcome would not be good from a policy/budgeting standpoint nor from the consumer viewpoint where students pay tuition and receive less value from their education than might otherwise have been the case.

  3. #123
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    In an environment where academic freedom is impaired, I would suspect that student learning would be undermined. That outcome would not be good from a policy/budgeting standpoint nor from the consumer viewpoint where students pay tuition and receive less value from their education than might otherwise have been the case.

    Ok, but it skirts my concern. I understand you are essentially saying that the free market will take care of this in the long run, and yes you are probably right in that, however in the mean time, kids are being deprived of a good education, and my tax dollars, and tuition costs are being misappropriated for dishonest ends.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  4. #124
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I am not going to sit here and pull up endless youtube's of speeches given at campuses across this nation where the conservative speaker has been shouted down in hopes of the liberal students shutting down the event, but you and I know it does exist. To say that intellectual debate can not happen? No, I won't say that fully yet, ..... yet. But it is getting to a point where you are labeled if you are a student, and conservative. Grades are effected. It is wrong.

    See, you think that it is only cons that have a hard time letting go of anything political when it comes to socializing on campus, but I am here to tell you that rarely do I see a conservative student taking the aggressive stance on campus, it is usually the liberal student that is in your face. So, I don't care whether you go to what you consider a conservative college, or a liberal one, the reality is that your faculty is mostly likely made up of liberal prof's that unless they can teach on a college campus, they be unemployable in the real world due to their inability to fit into society as a whole.

    j-mac
    Oh good god when did conservatives become such whiny victims? Kids act like assholes, it must be the liberals fault and my feelings are hurt...
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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  5. #125
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Now that is a fantastic point don. Why is it that the moniker of "Academic freedom" is such a lie today? Isn't it growing from the intolerance planted from the faculty?


    j-mac
    Would you include topics like creationism in "academic freedom"? If kids are being hassled in college for their beliefs, perhaps they are wrong. It could happen....
    I will never forget the day it was announced in my high school that President Kennedy was killed. One young man said, "great, another nigger lover dead".
    He was threatened on the spot, and was smart enough to keep his mouth shut. This was in East Texas, btw....
    Oracle of Utah
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  6. #126
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Oh good god when did conservatives become such whiny victims? Kids act like assholes, it must be the liberals fault and my feelings are hurt...

    Not all kids act like ***holes, and I would even go further and say that it isn't all liberal students that are projecting this. But it only takes a small number to be constantly grabbing attention, and you have perception. So tell me, are you willing to just turn a blind eye? Or, should we hold institutions like Colleges accountable for their blatant lie of being an "open forum, and open exchange of ideas" when we know this to be false?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #127
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Would you include topics like creationism in "academic freedom"? If kids are being hassled in college for their beliefs, perhaps they are wrong. It could happen....
    I will never forget the day it was announced in my high school that President Kennedy was killed. One young man said, "great, another nigger lover dead".
    He was threatened on the spot, and was smart enough to keep his mouth shut. This was in East Texas, btw....
    Why would you be so scared of the openness? Is it only the liberal ideas that deserve debate? How very "Moderate" of you.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. #128
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not all kids act like ***holes, and I would even go further and say that it isn't all liberal students that are projecting this. But it only takes a small number to be constantly grabbing attention, and you have perception. So tell me, are you willing to just turn a blind eye? Or, should we hold institutions like Colleges accountable for their blatant lie of being an "open forum, and open exchange of ideas" when we know this to be false?


    j-mac

    What liberal ideals have these kids espoused?

    I have little doubt they could be classified as reactionaries and are probably leftists, but let's not confuse that with actual liberalism, shall we?
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  9. #129
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, but it skirts my concern. I understand you are essentially saying that the free market will take care of this in the long run, and yes you are probably right in that, however in the mean time, kids are being deprived of a good education, and my tax dollars, and tuition costs are being misappropriated for dishonest ends.


    j-mac
    J-mac,

    Issues that undermine academic freedom or more broadly have a harmful impact on student learning outcomes should be addressed sooner rather than in the long-term. Today's graduates need to be prepared to have a chance to be as fully productive members of society (workforce and in life in general) as possible. If they cannot be fully productive, that would have adverse implications for the nation's productivity, competitiveness, economy, and finances. In short, even if my answer didn't fully convey it, I believe it is imperative that significant situations that deprive students of a good education should be treated as urgent matters by colleges/universities, their accrediting bodies, and also public policy leaders given the investments made in higher education. As a caveat, I do not believe public policy officials should attempt to dictate curricula. Their focus should be on outcomes, graduation success, etc.

  10. #130
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    Re: Hero's unwelcome

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Sorry, that evil men that are evil because they just are and hate us because we are free as they plot to kill us everyday is absurd. Theres nothing intellectual about it and it received the natural and human reaction of absurd dismissal.


    Bin Laden's letter to America
    9/11 attacks

    How many foiled attacks?

    Sorry your naivety is the only thing absurd and lacking anything "intellectual"?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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