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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

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    Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus



    AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Texas is preparing to give college students and professors the right to carry guns on campus, adding momentum to a national campaign to open this part of society to firearms.

    More than half the members of the Texas House have signed on as co-authors of a measure directing universities to allow concealed handguns. The Senate passed a similar bill in 2009 and is expected to do so again. Republican Gov. Rick Perry, who sometimes packs a pistol when he jogs, has said he's in favor of the idea.

    ~snip~

    Similar firearms measures have been proposed in about a dozen other states, but all face strong opposition, especially from college leaders. In Oklahoma, all 25 public college and university presidents declared their opposition to a concealed carry proposal.

    "There is no scenario where allowing concealed weapons on college campuses will do anything other than create a more dangerous environment for students, faculty, staff and visitors," Oklahoma Chancellor of Higher Education Glen Johnson said in January.

    University of Texas President William Powers has opposed concealed handguns on campus, saying the mix of students, guns and campus parties is too volatile.
    Allowing firearms on campus can only be a good thing.

    EDITORIAL: Guns decrease murder rates
    In Washington, the best defense is self-defense
    By THE WASHINGTON TIMES


    More guns in law-abiding hands mean less crime. The District of Columbia proves the point.

    <snip>

    Few who lived in Washington during the 1970s can forget the upswing in crime that started right after the ban was originally passed. In the five years before the 1977 ban, the murder rate fell from 37 to 27 murders per 100,000. In the five years after the gun ban went into effect, the murder rate rose back up to 35. One fact is particularly hard to ignore: D.C.'s murder rate fluctuated after 1976 but only once fell below what it was in 1976 before the ban. That aberration happened years later, in 1985.

    This correlation between the D.C. gun ban and diminished safety was not a coincidence. Look at the Windy City. Immediately after Chicago banned handguns in 1982, the murder rate, which had been falling almost continually for a decade, started to rise. Chicago's murder rate rose relative to other large cities as well. The phenomenon of higher murder rates after gun bans are passed is not just limited to the United States. Every single time a country has passed a gun ban, its murder rate soared.


    <snip>

    Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive
    Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?
    A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence.
    Din B. Kates* and Gary Mauser**


    The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.

    The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:

    Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population)
    .

    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Criminals generally want easy targets. Having a gun makes you a harder target. When you're in a population which carries, you are safer even if you don't carry a gun yourself, because a criminal has no way of knowing if you're carrying concealed or not and doesn't want to risk finding out the hard way.

    DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al. v. HELLER

    ~snip~

    We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those "in common use at the time." 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of "dangerous and unusual weapons."

    ~snip~

    It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful in military service--M-16 rifles and the like--may be banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment's ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as effective as militias in the 18th century, would require sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the protected right cannot change our interpretation of the right.

    FindLaw | Cases and Codes
    Pistol: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Automatic rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Grenade launcher: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    Patriot missile battery: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    Nuclear warheads: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.

    Tanks are not weapons. Tanks are vehicles weapons can be mounted in, but anyone with enough money to buy one can own one. That doesn't mean you can have a functioning cannon, 50cal machine gun, 2 saw machine guns, or grenades...it means you can ave the tank and the tank only.

    You can own a black hawk helicopter, also...doesn't mean you can have the twin mini-guns.

    ***
    We're talking about citizens 21 years of age and older, who also have a CCW, carrying a pistol on campus.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-20-11 at 06:36 PM.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    This will just make guns legal on campus. Guns have been on campuses for years.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    This is good news. I hope this is passed and that it continues to spread.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus



    I just heard AZ is talking of loosening gun laws too.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    I'm conflicted on this one. Young people don't always show the best judgment.

    I worry about people who have no training in gun safety getting hurt of hurting someone else unintentionally.

    I have the same concerns about adults.

    If they know what they are doing, No problem.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I'm conflicted on this one. Young people don't always show the best judgment.

    I worry about people who have no training in gun safety getting hurt of hurting someone else unintentionally.

    I have the same concerns about adults.

    If they know what they are doing, No problem.
    Do we know if proper training won't be a requirement?

    If it's not, I'm with you.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I'm conflicted on this one. Young people don't always show the best judgment.
    They're the same age as professional soldiers. Once a person becomes an adult, we have to accept that they are responsible for their own behavior.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    What are the rules of engagement? If someone else flashes theirs first does that make them the starter of the firefight? Is it illegal to duel? What can't I do with my gun?

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Have you guys been on a college campus recently? Specifically a non-commuter school with a large student population living on campus? Maybe this comes as a shock to some people, but college students like to drink alcohol...a lot. And at that age, they're often relatively new to alcohol and don't know their limits. Do you really want people to have guns in close proximity after they've just consumed 8 beers and are acting belligerent?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-20-11 at 10:02 PM.
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I'm conflicted on this one. Young people don't always show the best judgment.

    I worry about people who have no training in gun safety getting hurt of hurting someone else unintentionally.

    I have the same concerns about adults.

    If they know what they are doing, No problem.
    If you can't trust a 21 y/o with a pistol in peaceful environment, how can you trust an 18 y/o with a missile in a combat zone?

    Many states require a class and range qualification before issuing a CCW. As it happens, my state only requires a background check and $10. However, if my state decided to require a class I wouldn't object to it.

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