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Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

Jerry said:
That's one way to ignore the evidence, though I could have added more flair.
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I hear this every time I have this debate -- I hear about this elusive evidence supporting more liberal gun laws, but I never see it. I see an article, here and there, which usually devolves into fallacies and ad hominem attacks by the second sentence -- but evidence, I see none.

For my position, though, I have the weight of the world. I want to ask you to explain these simple figures to me, in the context of gun control laws:

In the United States, there are, on average, 11,000 violent gun crimes per year.
In the United Kingdom, there are, on average, 70 violent gun crimes per year.

The United States has a population of 300 million.
The United Kingdom has a population of 70 million.

The United States has the most lax gun laws in the developed world. The United States has the highest violent gun crime rate of any nation on Earth. The United Kingdom has some of the most tight gun control laws on Earth. The United Kingdom has the lowest violent gun crime rates of any major nation on Earth ('major' excluding states like Vatican City, Luxembourg, etc.).

Explain this to me.
 
Le Marteau said:
I hear this every time I have this debate -- I hear about this elusive evidence supporting more liberal gun laws, but I never see it. I see an article, here and there, which usually devolves into fallacies and ad hominem attacks by the second sentence -- but evidence, I see none.
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Like I said, you ignored the OP.

Feel free to bring an sourced argument, if in fact you have one.
 
Ha! It just occurred to me that I can't carry into Chucky-Cheese, as they serve alcohol.
 
Jerry said:
Allowing firearms on campus can only be a good thing.

EDITORIAL: Guns decrease murder rates



Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive



Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Criminals generally want easy targets. Having a gun makes you a harder target. When you're in a population which carries, you are safer even if you don't carry a gun yourself, because a criminal has no way of knowing if you're carrying concealed or not and doesn't want to risk finding out the hard way.


Pistol: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
Rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
Automatic rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
Grenade launcher: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
Patriot missile battery: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
Nuclear warheads: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.

Tanks are not weapons. Tanks are vehicles weapons can be mounted in, but anyone with enough money to buy one can own one. That doesn't mean you can have a functioning cannon, 50cal machine gun, 2 saw machine guns, or grenades...it means you can ave the tank and the tank only.

You can own a black hawk helicopter, also...doesn't mean you can have the twin mini-guns.

***
We're talking about citizens 21 years of age and older, who also have a CCW, carrying a pistol on campus.
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Dumb. Real Dumb. Guns are not a cure all. And young folks, even at 21 too often are not as mature as we'd all like.
 
Boo Radley said:
Dumb. Real Dumb. Guns are not a cure all. And young folks, even at 21 too often are not as mature as we'd all like.
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I can't think of one cure-all......for anything......can you?
 
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Jerry said:
I can't think of one cure-all......for anything......can you?
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Nope. But I can think of problems with guns in the classroom. I see people everyday I wouldn't trust with a spoon let alone a gun. I don't take my backhoe to church, and I wouldn't take a gun to school. Tools have a place and purpose.
 
Le Marteau said:
I hear this every time I have this debate -- I hear about this elusive evidence supporting more liberal gun laws, but I never see it. I see an article, here and there, which usually devolves into fallacies and ad hominem attacks by the second sentence -- but evidence, I see none.

For my position, though, I have the weight of the world. I want to ask you to explain these simple figures to me, in the context of gun control laws:

In the United States, there are, on average, 11,000 violent gun crimes per year.
In the United Kingdom, there are, on average, 70 violent gun crimes per year.

The United States has a population of 300 million.
The United Kingdom has a population of 70 million.

The United States has the most lax gun laws in the developed world. The United States has the highest violent gun crime rate of any nation on Earth. The United Kingdom has some of the most tight gun control laws on Earth. The United Kingdom has the lowest violent gun crime rates of any major nation on Earth ('major' excluding states like Vatican City, Luxembourg, etc.).

Explain this to me.
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I'm quoting this again, because the OP ignored it.
 
Boo Radley said:
Nope.
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Then I guess I don't understand your point in saying that guns are not a cure all, as though they need to be, if we agree that cure-alls don't exist.

Boo Radley said:
But I can think of problems with guns in the classroom. I see people everyday I wouldn't trust with a spoon let alone a gun. I don't take my backhoe to church, and I wouldn't take a gun to school. Tools have a place and purpose.
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Ok, but I would, so what evidence do you have that demonstrates why I should not be allowed?
 
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Jerry said:
Like I said, you ignored the OP.

Feel free to bring an sourced argument, if in fact you have one.
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I'm quoting this again, because the Le Marteau ignored it.
 
haymarket said:
Just when you think society has hit the bottom of the barrel, you discover that someone has been working feverishly to dig out a new basement under it.
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anyone know what this is in reference to?
 
Kandahar said:
The fact is that many campuses have lots of alcohol on them, whether it's allowed or not. And as long as that remains the case, it's better to not have guns nearby.



Those seem like pretty reasonable laws to me. I'd add many college campuses to that list though for the same reason...they're full of drunk people. It's not a matter of trying to stamp out gun ownership everywhere, it's just a matter of preventing an easily-foreseeable situation from becoming deadly.



Depends where you go to school. I've attended four universities and none of them banned drinking. And even if they would have, I suspect that the ban wouldn't have had much of an effect on actual student behavior.
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I think you're talking through your hat. Next you'll be tell us about your many degrees. None of them banned drinking? Show some sources.
 
Jerry said:
I'm quoting this again, because the Le Marteau ignored it.
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Just from the most rudimentary of google searches:

Teachable Moment -
Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gun violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gun Facts

Look, as I said, explain to me one single thing, alright?

Explain the relationship between the US having 11,000 violent gun crimes a year, and extremely lax gun laws, where the UK has 70 violent gun crimes a year, and extremely tight gun laws.
 
TurtleDude said:
freedom-it's an american thing

you wouldn't understand it
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Ah! Well, I guess the jig is up -- I'll just leave now, you having shown me the error of my ways. I shoulda seen it coming -- freedom! That's the thing I don't get! Yeah! Well, ****e, I wish someday I'll be able to understand this glorious thing you call freedom. Thank you for enlightening me Mr American man!
 
Le Marteau said:
Just from the most rudimentary of google searches:

Teachable Moment -
Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gun violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gun Facts

Look, as I said, explain to me one single thing, alright?

Explain the relationship between the US having 11,000 violent gun crimes a year, and extremely lax gun laws, where the UK has 70 violent gun crimes a year, and extremely tight gun laws.
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explain why the UK had very low gun crimes before the UK started banning guns

explain why the UK's rate of violent crime has increased since there have been gun bans and why the US rate has decreased despite the increase of gun ownership and carry permits

explain why cities in the US with complete handgun bans have so much more violent gun crime than nearby areas with less gun laws
 
Le Marteau said:
Ah! Well, I guess the jig is up -- I'll just leave now, you having shown me the error of my ways. I shoulda seen it coming -- freedom! That's the thing I don't get! Yeah! Well, ****e, I wish someday I'll be able to understand this glorious thing you call freedom. Thank you for enlightening me Mr American man!
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why do you spend so much time whining about American freedom? you sound like Aesop's fox
 
TurtleDude said:
explain why the UK had very low gun crimes before the UK started banning guns

explain why the UK's rate of violent crime has increased since there have been gun bans and why the US rate has decreased despite the increase of gun ownership and carry permits

explain why cities in the US with complete handgun bans have so much more violent gun crime than nearby areas with less gun laws
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The first, I can only attribute to the British being a more intelligent and humane people than the ignorant, redneck Americans. XD

The second -- I'd like to see some facts for that. I just showed you a bunch of evidence supporting my point, now support yours. You never do, I don't know why I continue to ask...

The third -- cities will always have higher crime rates than suburban and rural areas, no matter the laws. Grow up.
 
Le Marteau said:
Explain the relationship between the US having 11,000 violent gun crimes a year, and extremely lax gun laws, where the UK has 70 violent gun crimes a year, and extremely tight gun laws.
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Murder rates are determined by basic socio‐cultural and economic factors rather than mere availability of some particular form of weaponry.

Consider Norway and its neighbors Sweden, the Netherlands, and Denmark. Norway has far and away Western Europe’s highest household gun ownership rate (32%), but also its lowest murder rate. The Netherlands has the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe (1.9%), and Sweden lies midway between (15.1%) the Netherlands and Norway. Yet the Dutch gun murder rate is higher than the Norwegian, and the Swedish rate is even higher, though only slightly.

As with abortion and divorce, it all comes down to social and especially economic stability.
 
Le Marteau said:
The first, I can only attribute to the British being a more intelligent and humane people than the ignorant, redneck Americans. XD

The second -- I'd like to see some facts for that. I just showed you a bunch of evidence supporting my point, now support yours. You never do, I don't know why I continue to ask...

The third -- cities will always have higher crime rates than suburban and rural areas, no matter the laws. Grow up.
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Nice avoidance
 
Le Marteau said:
Er, I think this is the first post I've ever even farcically joked that you gun-toting hicks have greater freedom than us.
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eunuchs always pretend they have freedom and want to "share" their liberation with others
 
Le Marteau said:
I... Eunuchs? You're talking about my balls now?

I think we know who's won this round, mate.
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only retards claim to 'win' on cyber boards

If you won why are you here and we are not discussing on an english board
 
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