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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So you make assumptions, stereotypes, and hyperbole to make an argument against allowing guns on campus.
    YOU are the one who is making vicious attacks against anyone who prefers a pragmatic approach instead of a demagogue approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari
    Can you make an argument against it using sound logic, numbers, and rational thought? There are campuses that allows guns to be carried on campus. THere are campuses which allow alcohol on campus. And there are campuses that do both. How about some stats instead of your assumptions? You got any of that? Or do you still have nothing?
    I'm not sure any studies have ever examined the relationship. Nothing comes up on Google anyway. I really don't know what exactly you're PMSing about...which of my points do you disagree with? Are you disputing that drunk people with guns are a potential threat to public safety? If not, take your medicine and calm down.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-21-11 at 05:18 PM.
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    YOU are the one who is making vicious attacks against anyone who prefers a pragmatic approach instead of a demagogue approach.
    Am I? So I'm talking about "frat" boys and this or that? I'm making assumptions to prevent the exercise of a right with no data to back up my claim? Really? That's what you're going with here? Man, you need better excuses for your piss poor arguments. All I wanted was data to back up your ASSUMPTION and SUPPOSITION. That's it. Can you back it up with anything other than hearsay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm not sure any studies have ever examined the relationship. Nothing comes up on Google anyway. I really don't know what exactly you're PMSing about...which of my points do you disagree with? Are you disputing that drunk people with guns are a potential threat to public safety? If not, take your medicine and calm down.
    No, I'm asking of the Universities which allow guns on campus, how much of an issue has it really been. I'm asking you to be quantitative about your analysis, get some data, and make a decision made from actual measurement. Not supposition and assumption like you've been doing. Do you have anything which backs up your claims that allowing guns on campus will inherently lead to drunken outbursts of gun fire? Or are you just making it all up? That's it. No "PMSing" or any other of your deflects cause you can't answer the question. Do you have ANYTHING to back up your claims?
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    The universities should be allowed to set their own policies.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The fact is that many campuses have lots of alcohol on them, whether it's allowed or not. And as long as that remains the case, it's better to not have guns nearby.
    The kind of person who gets a CCW is not the kind of person who gets in a drunken stupor at frat parties. These are 2 different types of personalities; just like the gay who joins the military is not the kind of person who marches in the nude or cross-dressed in gay-pride parades.

    It is precisely because rowdy individuals bring the irresponsible consumption of liquor to the campus life that responsible individuals need to be able to properly defend themselves.

    It is precisely because every once in a while there is some insane lunatic who decides he wants to shoot up the school that the student body need to be permitted to train and carry the ability to defend themselves.

    And if you thing terrorists aren't targeting our middle schools, think again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Those seem like pretty reasonable laws to me. I'd add many college campuses to that list though for the same reason...they're full of drunk people. It's not a matter of trying to stamp out gun ownership everywhere, it's just a matter of preventing an easily-foreseeable situation from becoming deadly.
    Liquor stores aren't full of drunk people...at least not here...but I don't mind to much because the grocery store has better liquor prices anyway. You're typical CCW holder will even unload and secure their weapon before drinking at home. I speak from personal experience there.

    There was a push in SD to allow CCW holders to carry into bars and liquor stores, with the understanding that you still are not allowed to be legally intoxicated while carrying regardless of where you are. The bill failed as it didn't have enough support, but rumor has it it will be brought back up in the next year or two.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-21-11 at 06:09 PM.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    DiAnna.....you have to be 21 to perches a pistol. That's federal law.
    I know you have to be 21 to purchase a pistol in Texas. But do you have to be 21 to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon? Because lots of people under the age of 21 have access to pistols that were legally purchased by others.

    I have no problem with adults on campus who have passed the proper procedures to carry concealed weapons take their guns on campus. I'm simply wondering what kind of procedures are in place to assure that those carrying such weapons know how to properly use them. Yes, 18 year olds are "adults". Kinda.
    Last edited by DiAnna; 02-21-11 at 11:33 PM.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Allowing firearms on campus can only be a good thing.

    EDITORIAL: Guns decrease murder rates



    Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive



    Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Criminals generally want easy targets. Having a gun makes you a harder target. When you're in a population which carries, you are safer even if you don't carry a gun yourself, because a criminal has no way of knowing if you're carrying concealed or not and doesn't want to risk finding out the hard way.


    Pistol: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Automatic rifle: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? No.
    Grenade launcher: In common use at the time? Yes. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    Patriot missile battery: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.
    Nuclear warheads: In common use at the time? No. Is dangerous and unusual? Yes.

    Tanks are not weapons. Tanks are vehicles weapons can be mounted in, but anyone with enough money to buy one can own one. That doesn't mean you can have a functioning cannon, 50cal machine gun, 2 saw machine guns, or grenades...it means you can ave the tank and the tank only.

    You can own a black hawk helicopter, also...doesn't mean you can have the twin mini-guns.

    ***
    We're talking about citizens 21 years of age and older, who also have a CCW, carrying a pistol on campus.
    I am sure the holophobes will try to scare people into rejecting the idea by claiming that the college campuses will be like the wild west just like they tried to with conceal carry permits in many states.
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    I am glad this is finally going to be tried in the real world... we'll soon have real-world results to look at instead of unfounded speculation. I hope it spreads also... South Carolina has some pending legislation on the subject, including expansion of CCW rights in general and possibly a "no permit required" stipulation.

    Twenty-some years ago, when shall-issue (easy to get) CCW began becoming popular (a few states had it, several more were considering it), Certain Persons said this: "ZOMG!! It will be a WILD WEST BLOODBATH!!!(gasp!!)".

    Results, 20-some years later: 41 states now have shall-issue CCW. The hysterics of Certain Persons have been shown to be utterly unfounded. Crime has gone down and continues to do so. CCW permit holders have been show to be statistically far more peaceful and law abiding than even the general population.

    I strongly suspect we'll find out much the same thing about the guns-on-campus hysteria of Certain Persons.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    But do you have to be 21 to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon?
    In SD, an 18 year old who can obtain a CCW may carry a pistol concealed.

    South Dakota Codified Laws
    23-7-44. Possession of pistols by minors prohibited--Misdemeanor. No person under the age of eighteen years may knowingly possess a pistol. A violation of this section is a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I have no problem with adults on campus who have passed the proper procedures to carry concealed weapons take their guns on campus. I'm simply wondering what kind of procedures are in place to assure that those carrying such weapons know how to properly use them. Yes, 18 year olds are "adults". Kinda.
    Here are the conditions to acquire a CCW in SD:
    South Dakota Codified Laws
    23-7-7.1. Requirements for issuance of temporary permit--Time--Appeal of denial. A temporary permit to carry a concealed pistol shall be issued within five days of application to a person if the applicant:
    Is eighteen years of age or older;
    1. Has never pled guilty to, nolo contendere to, or been convicted of a felony or a crime of violence;
    2. Is not habitually in an intoxicated or drugged condition;
    3. Has no history of violence;
    4. Has not been found in the previous ten years to be a "danger to others" or a "danger to self" as defined in § 27A-1-1 or is not currently adjudged mentally incompetent;
    5. Has physically resided in and is a resident of the county where the application is being made for at least thirty days immediately preceding the date of the application;
    6. Has had no violations of chapter 23-7, 22-14, or 22-42 constituting a felony or misdemeanor in the five years preceding the date of application or is not currently charged under indictment or information for such an offense;
    7. Is a citizen of the United States; and
    8. Is not a fugitive from justice.

    A person denied a permit may appeal to the circuit court pursuant to chapter 1-26.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-22-11 at 04:17 AM.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    I'm curious as to where the information about CCW relating to notable reductions in crime rate comes from. Last I checked, there is no clear causal link between violent crime and gun laws, either way.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    I'm curious as to where the information about CCW relating to notable reductions in crime rate comes from. Last I checked, there is no clear causal link between violent crime and gun laws, either way.
    As I was careful to include exactly such data, from credible sources, in my OP, your post tells me you didn't bother to read the OP before posting.

    Why should anyone here engage you with any level of sincerity if you refuse to avail yourself of information when offered? I can only, therefore, assume your intent on this thread is to troll. To answer your question, one such place this information comes from is Harvard. Please review the OP and kindly stick to the topic.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-22-11 at 05:14 AM.

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