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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Read above. I actually have. And risky behavior that is increased increases risk. And we have establish a certain amount of risk to having a gun. There are accidents with guns.
    There are accidents with guns. The injury and fatality rate of which is lower than gravity. If you can't beat gravity, I don't see why I should be concerned. You have no numbers, you have nothing. You keep reposting opinions and trying to claim it is somehow proper evidence. But it's all just opinions in the end. You're the one arguing that this is proper restriction of a right based on unnecessary risks. The only thing I've ever done in this thread has been to ask you to quantify the risks. And you can't. You absolutely refuse. You will not even look up which Universities allow guns on campus and their relative amount of gun crimes by students on campus. If you can't even do that, you cannot make a proper argument on the legitimacy of this infringement.
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You support blatant infringements on the 2nd amendment,therefore you are anti-2nd amendment.

    Check you state and federal laws, there are restrictions, and even restrictions as to where you can carry, and have been for as long as either of us have been alive.
    What restrictions do you support? Registrations,permits/licenses, waiting periods and etc?





    I disagree on tow counts: 1) it does not violate the 2nd amendment, and
    Infringements violate the 2nd amendment. The second amendment specifically says that there shall not be any infringements. If you have to ask the government for permission to exercise your 2nd amendment rights then it is indeed a infringement despite what you anti-2nd amendment loons say.

    2) there is no need for the risk.
    What risk? By your logic all the rapes and assaults do not warrant people being armed because of numbers. So how are you going to say that ADULTS going to college are a risk? Again the risk is not great enough to warrant having restrictions on the 2nd amendment.


    Side steps the point, rape isn't happening in the classroom, and no, not all assults require a gun, which is why we need more information as to what we're talking about.
    Violent crime does occur on college campuses and in order to get to or leave those college classes you have to go through the college compasses.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You support blatant infringements on the 2nd amendment,therefore you are anti-2nd amendment.
    I know this is hard for you James, but disagreement doesn't equal blatant anything.


    What restrictions do you support? Registrations,permits/licenses, waiting periods and etc?
    Most those seem reasonable.





    Infringements violate the 2nd amendment. The second amendment specifically says that there shall not be any infringements. If you have to ask the government for permission to exercise your 2nd amendment rights then it is indeed a infringement despite what you anti-2nd amendment loons say.
    Actually, I've allowed you to use that word, but it is actually the wrong word. Think regulations. The things you name are not really infringments.


    What risk? By your logic all the rapes and assaults do not warrant people being armed because of numbers. So how are you going to say that ADULTS going to college are a risk? Again the risk is not great enough to warrant having restrictions on the 2nd amendment.
    You make a lot of leaps James. I'm not sure being armed prevents rape. You have to assume it happens a certain way, when it may well be possible to rape someone who carrys.

    But, you're making a lot of leaps, including with my position and actual argument.

    Violent crime does occur on college campuses and in order to get to or leave those college classes you have to go through the college compasses.
    In the dorms, at parties, rarely in class or at campus activities. Colleges are quite a bit safer than the general most places.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There are accidents with guns. The injury and fatality rate of which is lower than gravity. If you can't beat gravity, I don't see why I should be concerned. You have no numbers, you have nothing. You keep reposting opinions and trying to claim it is somehow proper evidence. But it's all just opinions in the end. You're the one arguing that this is proper restriction of a right based on unnecessary risks. The only thing I've ever done in this thread has been to ask you to quantify the risks. And you can't. You absolutely refuse. You will not even look up which Universities allow guns on campus and their relative amount of gun crimes by students on campus. If you can't even do that, you cannot make a proper argument on the legitimacy of this infringement.
    Again, you miss the point and leap to the obvious. gravity is everywhere. Guns are not. Gravity can't be avoided esily. Guns can be. Apples to tree frogs is not a good comparison, and I'm not comparing anything. Guns on their own present a greater risk when there are more of them than when there are less. Do you really dispute that?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #455
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I know this is hard for you James, but disagreement doesn't equal blatant anything.




    Most those seem reasonable.
    Then you are lying your ass off when you say you are pro-2nd amendment. You are about as pro-2nd amendment as I am pro-abortion.





    Actually, I've allowed you to use that word, but it is actually the wrong word. Think regulations. The things you name are not really infringments.
    Those things are infringements because they are pro-conditions.They amount to asking the government permission to exercise a right that says the government can on infringe on. If you have to ask the government permission then it is an infringement and actually a privilege.


    You make a lot of leaps James. I'm not sure being armed prevents rape. You have to assume it happens a certain way, when it may well be possible to rape someone who carrys.

    But, you're making a lot of leaps, including with my position and actual argument.
    You are making the leap that it would be more dangerous to let adults be armed.

    In the dorms, at parties, rarely in class or at campus activities.


    Campus is where those crimes occur. In order to get to parties, dorms, classes and etc you have to move on the campuses.

    Colleges are quite a bit safer than the general most places.
    Doesn't mean that adults should be banned form exercising their 2nd amendment rights.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Then you are lying your ass off when you say you are pro-2nd amendment. You are about as pro-2nd amendment as I am pro-abortion.
    Again, you absoluteism is what is beyond the pale. The second amendment does not prohit those things.


    Those things are infringements because they are pro-conditions.They amount to asking the government permission to exercise a right that says the government can on infringe on. If you have to ask the government permission then it is an infringement and actually a privilege.
    All allowed by the second amendment, as courts have ruled repeatedly.

    You are making the leap that it would be more dangerous to let adults be armed.

    In the dorms, at parties, rarely in class or at campus activities.


    Campus is where those crimes occur. In order to get to parties, dorms, classes and etc you have to move on the campuses.
    No leap on my part, we have the accident satisitics. We have the evidence of the maturity level of the population and how they handle other adult responsibilities. And we know that with any risky endeavor, the more there is of it, the more risk there is. And we know right now, crime is low and less on campus than off campus.

    No leap on my part James.

    Doesn't mean that adults should be banned form exercising their 2nd amendment rights.
    James, it doesn't violate their second amendment rights. Not in any way. Restrictions of where and when are not forbidden by the second amendment.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, you absoluteism is what is beyond the pale. The second amendment does not prohit those things.
    The 2nd amendment prohibits infringements. Waiting periods, licenses/permits and etc are infringements. You are a liar when you say you are pro-2nd amendment.

    All allowed by the second amendment,
    Those things violate the 2nd amendment and 5th amendment

    as courts have ruled repeatedly.
    What SC cases state that waiting periods, licenses/permits do not violate the 2nd amendment?


    In Haynes v. United States declared that a convicted felon registering his firearm because it would violate his 5th amendment right to not incriminate himself.

    No leap on my part, we have the accident satisitics.
    Out of the 270 million firearms in the country what is the percentage that resulted in accidents?

    We have the evidence of the maturity level of the population and how they handle other adult responsibilities. And we know that with any risky endeavor, the more there is of it, the more risk there is. And we know right now, crime is low and less on campus than off campus.
    SO you are against legalizing drugs?




    James, it doesn't violate their second amendment rights. Not in any way. Restrictions of where and when are not forbidden by the second amendment.
    What part of "shall not infringe" do you fail to understand?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The 2nd amendment prohibits infringements. Waiting periods, licenses/permits and etc are infringements. You are a liar when you say you are pro-2nd amendment.
    James, your personal definition of an infringment is not equal to a legal one. These things have been before the courts and the courts have allowed these regulations. It does not infringe on the right to bear arms.


    Those things violate the 2nd amendment and 5th amendment
    I and apparently the courts disagree. Now what?

    What SC cases state that waiting periods, licenses/permits do not violate the 2nd amendment?
    This is largely part of the Brady bill, right? So:

    However, the overall Brady statute was upheld and state and local law enforcement officials remained free to conduct background checks if they so chose. The vast majority continued to do so[17]. This issue later became moot when NICS came online in 1998 and the waiting period requirement sunsetted.

    Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    In Haynes v. United States declared that a convicted felon registering his firearm because it would violate his 5th amendment right to not incriminate himself.
    You thinkthat was the end of it?

    As with many other 5th amendment cases, felons and others prohibited from possessing firearms could not be compelled to incriminate themselves through registration.[1][2] The National Firearm Act was amended after Haynes and the new registration provision was upheld in United States v. Freed, 401 U.S. 601 (1971).[3]

    Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Out of the 270 million firearms in the country what is the percentage that resulted in accidents?
    It doesn't matter. They happen. And the more of anything that happens increases the odds. (I gave the numbers earlier if you're really interested)

    SO you are against legalizing drugs?
    Whether I am or not, doesn't mean I would accept that the risk would increase. It would increase.




    What part of "shall not infringe" do you fail to understand?
    Likely the same part of regulate you don't get. let's try not to be too silly. Again, there is nothing new in these regulations and they have been with us for a long time, and not only have they not been struck down, but upheld.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    James, your personal definition of an infringment is not equal to a legal one. These things have been before the courts and the courts have allowed these regulations. It does not infringe on the right to bear arms.
    It may interest you to know that it is illegal in my state, SD, for the government or any vendor to register or otherwise keep any list of who owns what firearm, precisely because doing so is an infringement.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It doesn't matter. They happen.
    Very rarely, a woman will die of complications of childbirth. Therefore, pregnancy must be banned.

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