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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not anti-second amendment either.
    That is a lie.

    It just isn't as absolute as some think it is. Some restriction is allowed.
    What kind of restrictions? Waiting periods, licenses/permits, registrations, excessive taxes and etc?




    No, not in the context I use it. The risk is not great enough to warrant having a gun on campus, which would likely represent a larger risk.
    The risk is not great enough to warrant having restrictions on the 2nd amendment, but yet you people seek to impose all sorts of restrictions that violate the 2nd amendment.



    Rape is more easily defined; however, your source uses something less specific. We need the term defined as to what they mean in their numbers. Did I insult someone sexually, which might require a slap in the face or a formal complain, but not a gun. I suggest you're using the numbers to say something they are not saying.
    Again do you think rape and assault are something that one should be able to use a gun to defend themselves with?
    Last edited by jamesrage; 03-09-11 at 03:34 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Have you guys been on a college campus recently? Specifically a non-commuter school with a large student population living on campus? Maybe this comes as a shock to some people, but college students like to drink alcohol...a lot. And at that age, they're often relatively new to alcohol and don't know their limits. Do you really want people to have guns in close proximity after they've just consumed 8 beers and are acting belligerent?
    Typical liberal bull****.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not anti-second amendment either. It just isn't as absolute as some think it is. Some restriction is allowed.
    There are some restrictions. However, you somehow got it in your skull that because there are restrictions, you can now place further restrictions WITHOUT CAUSE. That's the end all be all to this. But to keep and bear arms is still a RIGHT. Which means that if you want to infringe upon it, you have to have JUST CAUSE. You have to have DATA, you have to have PROPER ARGUMENT. But you have none of that. You have opinion, that's it. Even the links and quotes you provide are OPINION. None of it is based in fact or measurable data.

    So why is it that YOUR opinion is right and mine is wrong? Why do we have to listen to YOUR opinion on the restriction of rights without proof? You keep saying they're not needed, but that's not true. There could be many situations on campus where they could be needed. You keep saying it's a risk, but that's not true. I've already given you REAL WORLD DATA that shows that there is no increase to the overall, aggregated risk. You have no proof, you have no data, you have no quantifiable variable by which you can make a proper argument for restrictions of a right. Just because there are restrictions does not mean you can place restrictions without cause. You must still provide PROOF. Until that point it is only opinion. And in this country, only opinion cannot be used to infringe upon the free exercise of a right.

    You want to say that my statement that guns are needed on campus is an opinion. OK, well let's start there and look at the reality of our arguments. They're both opinions. But you want to use your opinion to elicit government force against the free exercise of a right. I want to use my opinion to remove government force against the free exercise of a right until proof can be shown to properly argue for the restriction. That's where we're at, whether you want to accept it or not. Rights are to be upheld to their highest, it is the way in which we maximize freedom; freedom being the goal. You cannot infringe upon the exercise of a right without proof. Not justly, not properly, and not without the use of tyranny. I will not support tyranny. If you think it's such a risk, you should be able to prove it. Not all Universities allow guns on campus, but a non-zero number do. So from that number, which University has a much higher risk of gun violence on campus? Can you even answer the question.

    Yes, you're going to have to think about it. Yes, you're going to have to do a bit of research on it. But burden of proof is on YOU because you're the one looking to restrict a right. So gather the numbers, come back and tell me what you found.
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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Before any liberals who want to ban guns come into this thread, you should know that you are six times more likely to get mugged in London where guns are banned) than in New York City, and that burglars claim that they fear armed home owners more than they do the police, and in England the burglar rate is 53% higher than America (which has a burglar percent of 13%): BBC NEWS | UK | Why Britain needs more guns
    Last edited by Cmdr Shepard; 03-09-11 at 04:40 PM.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There are some restrictions. However, you somehow got it in your skull that because there are restrictions, you can now place further restrictions WITHOUT CAUSE. That's the end all be all to this. But to keep and bear arms is still a RIGHT. Which means that if you want to infringe upon it, you have to have JUST CAUSE. You have to have DATA, you have to have PROPER ARGUMENT. But you have none of that. You have opinion, that's it. Even the links and quotes you provide are OPINION. None of it is based in fact or measurable data.

    So why is it that YOUR opinion is right and mine is wrong? Why do we have to listen to YOUR opinion on the restriction of rights without proof? You keep saying they're not needed, but that's not true. There could be many situations on campus where they could be needed. You keep saying it's a risk, but that's not true. I've already given you REAL WORLD DATA that shows that there is no increase to the overall, aggregated risk. You have no proof, you have no data, you have no quantifiable variable by which you can make a proper argument for restrictions of a right. Just because there are restrictions does not mean you can place restrictions without cause. You must still provide PROOF. Until that point it is only opinion. And in this country, only opinion cannot be used to infringe upon the free exercise of a right.

    You want to say that my statement that guns are needed on campus is an opinion. OK, well let's start there and look at the reality of our arguments. They're both opinions. But you want to use your opinion to elicit government force against the free exercise of a right. I want to use my opinion to remove government force against the free exercise of a right until proof can be shown to properly argue for the restriction. That's where we're at, whether you want to accept it or not. Rights are to be upheld to their highest, it is the way in which we maximize freedom; freedom being the goal. You cannot infringe upon the exercise of a right without proof. Not justly, not properly, and not without the use of tyranny. I will not support tyranny. If you think it's such a risk, you should be able to prove it. Not all Universities allow guns on campus, but a non-zero number do. So from that number, which University has a much higher risk of gun violence on campus? Can you even answer the question.

    Yes, you're going to have to think about it. Yes, you're going to have to do a bit of research on it. But burden of proof is on YOU because you're the one looking to restrict a right. So gather the numbers, come back and tell me what you found.
    As this restriction has been here, there is no further restriction. It's not a new one.

    And no, I have no problem with opinions. It's not a bad word to me. However, I gave specific information that related to my opinion. College campus are actually safer than the rest of the nation on the whole, but a good margin. And little to nothing dangerous is going on in the classroom to require the need for guns. Actual rape is not happening in the classroom during class. No gun is needed.

    Bring one to the classroom where one wasn't before has to increase the risk just as introducing cars where there were nto cars before increases the risk. Without a specific and demonstative reason for the risk, the risk has to be viewed as needless.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    That is a lie.


    What kind of restrictions? Waiting periods, licenses/permits, registrations, . . . . taxes and etc?
    Check you state and federal laws, there are restrictions, and even restrictions as to where you can carry, and have been for as long as either of us have been alive.



    The risk is not great enough to warrant having restrictions on the 2nd amendment, but yet you people seek to impose all sorts of restrictions that violate the 2nd amendment.
    I disagree on tow counts: 1) it does not violate the 2nd amendment, and 2) there is no need for the risk.


    Again do you think rape and assault are something that one should be able to use a gun to defend themselves with?
    Side steps the point, rape isn't happening in the classroom, and no, not all assults require a gun, which is why we need more information as to what we're talking about.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As this restriction has been here, there is no further restriction. It's not a new one.

    And no, I have no problem with opinions. It's not a bad word to me. However, I gave specific information that related to my opinion. College campus are actually safer than the rest of the nation on the whole, but a good margin. And little to nothing dangerous is going on in the classroom to require the need for guns. Actual rape is not happening in the classroom during class. No gun is needed.

    Bring one to the classroom where one wasn't before has to increase the risk just as introducing cars where there were nto cars before increases the risk. Without a specific and demonstative reason for the risk, the risk has to be viewed as needless.
    You keep saying this, but have proven no risk. Did you do what I asked you since you're the one against the free exercise of a right? Did you look up the statistics for Universities with gun policies (allowing)? What did you find? Can you quantify the risk or are you still on the side of restriction without cause?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And no risk. Keep in mind the two point arguement. Needless risk.
    You haven't demonstrated this risk, therefore it doesn't exist.

    In fact, according to the mountain of evidence myself and others have provided, the lack of firearms is the risk. You haven't justified why you support this public hazard.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You haven't demonstrated this risk, therefore it doesn't exist.

    In fact, according to the mountain of evidence myself and others have provided, the lack of firearms is the risk. You haven't justified why you support this public hazard.
    Haven't I? We see the stats that people have accidents with guns. They do accidently shoot them selves and others. Logically, any time you increase the number of risky rehaviors and tools, you increase the risk. More cars on the road increases the risk of accident. And more guns on campus increases the risk of an accidental shooting. This is not all that debatable.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You keep saying this, but have proven no risk. Did you do what I asked you since you're the one against the free exercise of a right? Did you look up the statistics for Universities with gun policies (allowing)? What did you find? Can you quantify the risk or are you still on the side of restriction without cause?
    Read above. I actually have. And risky behavior that is increased increases risk. And we have establish a certain amount of risk to having a gun. There are accidents with guns.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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