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Thread: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post

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    That's been addressed already. One, it is extremely rare. Second, most experts don't believe students being armed woudl have stopped it. Someone on side of the argument mentions that above. Fear makes people do stupid things. Increasing the risk because your afraid is neither wise or safe.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    First, those don't happen to any real degree. The rapes are off campus, at parties and such. Not in the classroom, not in the library. You're making a problem where there isn't one. So no, it is not needed on campus.
    That's still YOUR OPINION. For the love of all that is holy, you keep saying this, but it's nothing more than you're opinion. And then you have the gall to claim there is no assault, robbery, or rape on campus. Why the hell do you think they put the emergency police contact stations all over campus? Because there was no violent crime there ever and they just wanted something to look good? I think there is a need for guns on campus. There. Now why should your opinion win out over mine? What right do you have to tell me how and where I can exercise my rights without courts, without due process, with nothing more than your opinion, no data, supposition, assumption, and hyperbole to back up what you claim. Why is any of that good enough to infringe upon rights?

    Guns are needed on campus.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's been addressed already. One, it is extremely rare. Second, most experts don't believe students being armed woudl have stopped it. Someone on side of the argument mentions that above. Fear makes people do stupid things. Increasing the risk because your afraid is neither wise or safe.
    Most experts don't believe. You see a problem with that? Fear does make people do stupid things, when TSA is disbanded we can come back and talk about this. As it stands to keep and bear arms is a right of the individual. Universities which already have concealed weapons allowed have no increased problems with gun violence. Yet here you are with "believes" and "I think" and somehow all of that is supposed to be proper argument to infringe upon the rights of the individual. You somehow miss the DANGER in your own statements and what you wish to allow government to do.

    Yeah, chances are if guns are allowed on campus you don't stop the random lone gunman because it requires someone to be in the right place at the right time with a gun, and most students regardless of ability will not carry a gun. But I'd much prefer the chance to defend myself SHOULD something happen. Instead of sitting there with a gun in my face hoping that Boo comes out of nowhere with the police to save me. All those dead students, and you wouldn't even consider giving ONE of them a chance. Because of your IRRATIONAL FEAR of guns and UNSUPPORTED arguments against the exercise of a right. For shame.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's still YOUR OPINION. For the love of all that is holy, you keep saying this, but it's nothing more than you're opinion. And then you have the gall to claim there is no assault, robbery, or rape on campus. Why the hell do you think they put the emergency police contact stations all over campus? Because there was no violent crime there ever and they just wanted something to look good? I think there is a need for guns on campus. There. Now why should your opinion win out over mine? What right do you have to tell me how and where I can exercise my rights without courts, without due process, with nothing more than your opinion, no data, supposition, assumption, and hyperbole to back up what you claim. Why is any of that good enough to infringe upon rights?

    Guns are needed on campus.
    First, opinions are not bad words. Your OPINION that they are needed is an opinion as well.

    However, I have a little more than opinion.

    Besides having offered police chiefs and administrations on the subject, let me add this:

    School shootings have high profile but occur infrequently
    March 25, 1998
    Web posted at: 11:01 p.m. EST (0401 GMT)
    (CNN) -- While there have been several school shootings in the news this school year, they are still relatively rare, according to recent Department of Education statistics.

    In a report issued in March, the department reports that 10 percent of public schools reported one or more serious violent crimes during the 1996-97 school year. The figure was 8 percent for rural schools such as the middle school in Jonesboro, Arkansas.

    CNN - School shootings have high profile but occur infrequently - March 25, 1998

    Those include HS and middle schools. Rareer still would be colleges.

    Homicide is the second most common cause of death among children 5-18 years of age. But the study points out that less than 1% of all youth homicides occur at school.

    CDC: School Homicides Are Rare

    Despite a heightened awareness of violent crime on campus, national and state statistics show that colleges are statistically safer than society in general. A recent Department of Justice study has concluded that college students are actually less likely to be victims of sexual assault and other violent crimes than non-students of a similar age. The difference for 18- to 24-year-olds on campus, according to the DOJ study, was 68 victimizations per 1,000 students annually compared to 82 victimizations per 1,000 for non-students.

    Violent crimes on college campuses are relatively rare - Kingsport Times-News Online

    Now if we think, adding guns would only add to the risk. A low risk now becomes a greater risk. Yes, we do have to think, as we don't have a large enough populas to study. So, we ahve to look at overall gun statisitcs,which show a number of accidents, look at average student irresponisibility, and make a judgement (called critical thinking). doing so is not wrong, or improper in a discussion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not needed on campus. Nothing to defend yourself from. There is no real threat on campus.
    Really? Are you such a anti-2nd amendment partisan you have to resort to lying?

    http://www.arsafeschools.com/Files/ViolentCrimeBP.pdf

    Criminal Offenses - Aggravated Assault

    Criminal Offenses - Forcible Sex Offenses
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    First, I not against guns. Just against them on campus.

    Second from your own link:

    Yet the crime rate is over two times less on college campuses than for the entire United States. For the other violent crimes, the U.S. crime rates are exponentially more than the college crime rates. What this shows is that the college campus is a safe place for students to be living and receiving their education when compared with off campus.

    Third, your other two links are vague and not something we can examine close enough. They could include a large number of seriously minor offenses, not somehting any reasonable would use a gun to address.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    First, I not against guns. Just against them on campus.
    I said anti-2nd amendment. I am well aware that you like to use a hunting trip you did 30 or 40 years ago to somehow prove you like guns.


    Second from your own link:

    Yet the crime rate is over two times less on college campuses than for the entire United States. For the other violent crimes, the U.S. crime rates are exponentially more than the college crime rates. What this shows is that the college campus is a safe place for students to be living and receiving their education when compared with off campus.

    Third, your other two links are vague and not something we can examine close enough. They could include a large number of seriously minor offenses,
    It is still false to say there is nothing to defend your self against.


    not somehting any reasonable would use a gun to address.
    You don't think rape and assault are something a reasonable person would use a gun to defend themselves against?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I said anti-2nd amendment. I am well aware that you like to use a hunting trip you did 30 or 40 years ago to somehow prove you like guns.
    Not anti-second amendment either. It just isn't as absolute as some think it is. Some restriction is allowed.



    It is still false to say there is nothing to defend your self against.
    No, not in the context I use it. The risk is not great enough to warrant having a gun on campus, which would likely represent a larger risk.


    You don't think rape and assault are something a reasonable person would use a gun to defend themselves against?
    Rape is more easily defined; however, your source uses something less specific. We need the term defined as to what they mean in their numbers. Did I insult someone sexually, which might require a slap in the face or a formal complain, but not a gun. I suggest you're using the numbers to say something they are not saying.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Leave it outside, off campus preferably.
    Actually we're free to bring them in...the skateboards, that is....even though they have no purpose in the classroom. We bring a lot of things on out person which do not serve an immediate purpose in a given classroom, including textbooks of other classes, so really the whole notion that something doesn't belong if it's not for that class is just silliness.

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    Re: Texas poised to pass bill allowing guns on campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Actually we're free to bring them in...the skateboards, that is....even though they have no purpose in the classroom. We bring a lot of things on out person which do not serve an immediate purpose in a given classroom, including textbooks of other classes, so really the whole notion that something doesn't belong if it's not for that class is just silliness.
    And no risk. Keep in mind the two point arguement. Needless risk.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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